Adam Page Theme Composer Vincent Pedulla on Hangman Adam Page, Composing for Netflix, Serj Tankian

Thanks for checking out this episode of the Ropes and Riffs podcast.

2

00:00:16,038 --> 00:00:23,182

This is John, your host, Today, I'm very happy and very excited to be speaking with one

Vincent Padula.

3

00:00:23,182 --> 00:00:26,544

For those who may go, Vincent Padula, I know that name.

4

00:00:26,544 --> 00:00:31,696

He's the gentleman who has written the Adam Page themes since he has been in AEW.

5

00:00:31,696 --> 00:00:37,532

So if you know Black Hat, if you know Ghost Town Triumph, if you know Hangman's Tale, if

you know any of these,

6

00:00:37,532 --> 00:00:38,914

This is the man behind that.

7

00:00:38,914 --> 00:00:42,159

But he's not just somebody who's done hangman Adam Page's theme.

8

00:00:42,159 --> 00:00:45,423

He's someone that has worked on lots of Netflix series.

9

00:00:45,423 --> 00:00:47,556

He's someone who's worked on advertisements.

10

00:00:47,556 --> 00:00:48,988

He's worked on TV shows.

11

00:00:48,988 --> 00:00:52,200

So even though you may know him mostly,

12

00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:57,280

from the Hangman Adam Page themes that he's done, you've probably heard his work in lots

of different places.

13

00:00:57,280 --> 00:00:59,220

So we're gonna have a great conversation with him.

14

00:00:59,220 --> 00:01:03,660

He's also worked with Serge from System of a Down on lots of different music.

15

00:01:03,660 --> 00:01:11,960

So for me being a little gentleman all the way up to 36 year old me right now, System of a

Down is a huge influence on me and I hope they're an influence on you too.

16

00:01:11,960 --> 00:01:14,200

So we talk about that as well.

17

00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:17,120

So enjoy the interview with Vincent Padula coming up.

18

00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:19,268

Just a couple of things to get out of the way.

19

00:01:19,268 --> 00:01:28,415

As you know, if you're listening to us on Apple podcasts, on Spotify, over on YouTube, hit

us with a subscribe, hit us with a follow, and I hope you're enjoying everything here.

20

00:01:28,415 --> 00:01:36,342

And if you like the shows that you're hearing, please go ahead, let people know, share the

episodes with them, share the short clips over on our socials.

21

00:01:36,342 --> 00:01:41,606

You can follow us on any of the socials, on Twitter, on Facebook, on X, on Instagram.

22

00:01:41,606 --> 00:01:43,448

We are at Ropes and Riffs.

23

00:01:43,448 --> 00:01:46,220

Make it real simple for you, at Ropes and Riffs everywhere.

24

00:01:46,220 --> 00:01:48,932

Even on YouTube, we're at Ropes and Riffs.

25

00:01:49,050 --> 00:01:55,846

So make it easy, Ropes N Riffs, R-O-P-E-S, the letter N, R-I-F-F-S.

26

00:01:55,846 --> 00:02:03,812

And also, something new that we're putting out here, if you donate $10 or more to the

show, I'll go ahead and shout you out here at the beginning.

27

00:02:03,812 --> 00:02:11,748

I love the fact that we're building such an awesome audience here talking about music,

talking about wrestling, and talking about wrestling entrance themes with wrestlers and

28

00:02:11,748 --> 00:02:14,000

musicians of all shapes and sizes.

29

00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:15,771

So I'd love to be able to have you.

30

00:02:15,771 --> 00:02:17,073

as part of that as well.

31

00:02:17,073 --> 00:02:26,797

So $10 or more, if you go ahead and donate that to PayPal at Ropes and Riffs, you'll get

shouted out on the next show, both on our video and on our audio feed here.

32

00:02:26,797 --> 00:02:29,140

So enough of that, enough of you hearing me.

33

00:02:29,140 --> 00:02:32,636

Let's go ahead and jump into our interview here with Vincent Padula.

34

00:02:32,804 --> 00:02:35,659

Vinny, thank you so much for making the time to chat with us today.

35

00:02:35,659 --> 00:02:36,868

How's it going over there?

36

00:02:36,868 --> 00:02:38,688

Hey John, pretty good, how are you doing?

37

00:02:38,688 --> 00:02:39,844

Did you have a good holiday?

38

00:02:39,844 --> 00:02:46,272

Yeah, it's crazy to think that we're almost out of the holiday, but December is basically

just holiday, that's it.

39

00:02:46,272 --> 00:02:54,350

But when we're recording this, we're right at New Year's, New Year's Eve is tomorrow, so

I'm assuming you've got some things going down for New Year's Eve, New Year's.

40

00:02:54,850 --> 00:03:02,344

Well, maybe, but I have two daughters and one of them woke up throwing up this morning.

41

00:03:02,344 --> 00:03:13,361

she's got whatever's going on, the bug, and well, if you see me start vomiting

uncontrollably during the podcast, you'll know I have it too.

42

00:03:13,361 --> 00:03:14,672

So I don't know.

43

00:03:14,672 --> 00:03:15,972

We'll see what happens.

44

00:03:16,249 --> 00:03:19,329

if you start vomiting uncontrollably, you can just blame me.

45

00:03:19,329 --> 00:03:21,889

You can just be like, I'm looking at this guy, and that's it.

46

00:03:21,889 --> 00:03:22,809

My daughters are fine.

47

00:03:22,809 --> 00:03:23,916

It's this guy here.

48

00:03:24,367 --> 00:03:32,585

obviously we're going to talk a bit about the work that you've done with Hangman Adam Page

and in my opinion, some of the best themes that are out there right now.

49

00:03:32,585 --> 00:03:42,383

And I'm not just saying that because you're on screen, but as somebody that does this

professionally too, I love to hear when themes are really in the pocket of being able to

50

00:03:42,383 --> 00:03:46,948

represent the person that they're bringing down to the ring and really represent each

wrestler.

51

00:03:46,948 --> 00:03:48,723

But before we go into that,

52

00:03:48,723 --> 00:03:59,387

I want to go ahead and give you an opportunity to let everybody know basically what you've

done within the music and multimedia industry because you've done a lot of work for a lot

53

00:03:59,387 --> 00:04:08,661

of different shows, a lot of different movies, and you're not just doing things for

wrestlers, but you've also done a lot for various visual media.

54

00:04:09,321 --> 00:04:11,723

Yeah, everything you can imagine.

55

00:04:11,723 --> 00:04:14,025

I do a lot of work in advertising.

56

00:04:14,025 --> 00:04:15,806

I've done a lot of work in TV.

57

00:04:15,806 --> 00:04:23,672

I've done a few shows for Netflix, one of which just came out, Cold Case, Who Killed John

Bonet, Ramsey.

58

00:04:23,672 --> 00:04:25,773

That's directed by Joe Berlinger.

59

00:04:25,773 --> 00:04:28,176

It was a fun show to work on before that.

60

00:04:28,176 --> 00:04:31,638

We did Hitler and the Nazis, Evil on Trial.

61

00:04:31,638 --> 00:04:33,201

It's a six-part series.

62

00:04:33,201 --> 00:04:35,743

chronicling the rise and fall of the Third Reich.

63

00:04:35,743 --> 00:04:39,927

Before that, a couple of seasons of a Netflix show called Crime Scene.

64

00:04:39,927 --> 00:04:44,710

yeah, done shows, done TV, worked on some film stuff.

65

00:04:44,710 --> 00:04:46,391

Pretty much anything you can imagine.

66

00:04:46,391 --> 00:04:50,833

I've kind of dipped my toes in whatever I can get, really.

67

00:04:50,833 --> 00:04:52,594

So, it's been fun.

68

00:04:52,710 --> 00:04:56,691

Now for you, do you have a specific kind of medium that you like to work for more?

69

00:04:56,691 --> 00:05:00,662

Like for me, I love working on shorter form content, right?

70

00:05:00,662 --> 00:05:01,352

I love that.

71

00:05:01,352 --> 00:05:06,124

But I've also over the years become such a fan of doing music for like video games and

things like that.

72

00:05:06,124 --> 00:05:09,855

And a lot of the work I've done for those have been more, you know, smaller independent

video games.

73

00:05:09,855 --> 00:05:15,937

But I've always felt like for me, that's where kind of like put John in a scoring

scenario.

74

00:05:15,937 --> 00:05:17,567

What do you really resonate with?

75

00:05:17,567 --> 00:05:21,042

I've always felt like that's kind of my medium, but do you feel...

76

00:05:21,042 --> 00:05:23,792

Like, there's a specific medium that resonates more with you.

77

00:05:23,792 --> 00:05:26,982

Film, TV, advertising for when you score.

78

00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:35,549

I probably enjoy TV the most just because it takes place over a, you know, extended arc.

79

00:05:35,549 --> 00:05:39,633

You get to really build themes over multiple episodes.

80

00:05:39,633 --> 00:05:41,735

You get to kind of...

81

00:05:42,051 --> 00:05:45,894

Take things on a journey, go places you're not really limited to.

82

00:05:45,894 --> 00:05:51,819

It's tough in advertising you're trying to pack all this into 30 seconds or 60 seconds.

83

00:05:51,819 --> 00:06:02,567

A whole film's worth of ideas but in TV you really get space to kind of stretch out,

develop things over time so I like doing that kind of thing.

84

00:06:03,087 --> 00:06:09,633

And it's funny too that we're talking about doing the hangman theme where it's evolved

over time too and it makes sense with TV too.

85

00:06:09,633 --> 00:06:14,507

And I think that a lot of composers will say it's either movies or television.

86

00:06:14,507 --> 00:06:21,844

And if you're television by extension, sometimes it is video games because you get the

ability to develop themes over time, which you do in movies too.

87

00:06:21,844 --> 00:06:28,939

But TV can take such, like you said, you can elongate the content that you're doing over

six, seven, eight seasons.

88

00:06:28,939 --> 00:06:30,831

So if you have a theme for a character,

89

00:06:30,831 --> 00:06:31,622

You can go, you know what?

90

00:06:31,622 --> 00:06:37,308

It's going to evolve over this, as opposed to in a movie where it's like, hey, it could be

anywhere 90 to 120 minutes.

91

00:06:37,308 --> 00:06:38,880

There's a lot that you can do.

92

00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:44,566

But the amount of room that you have, the longer the content is, the more content you have

to work with.

93

00:06:44,566 --> 00:06:49,671

It just gives you even more to have a lot more compositional fun, so to say.

94

00:06:49,895 --> 00:06:56,324

Yeah, more time to develop ideas, take them to different places, try new things.

95

00:06:56,324 --> 00:07:05,756

Whereas you're very limited, or somewhat limited on a film to kind of get all this into an

hour and a half, two hours.

96

00:07:06,043 --> 00:07:16,944

So let's dovetail a little bit into what we're here to talk about, which is the world of

professional wrestling entrance music and the work that you've done with Hangman Adam

97

00:07:16,944 --> 00:07:17,445

Page.

98

00:07:17,445 --> 00:07:26,093

You know, there's a couple of people who are in the space of doing entrance themes, and

many times there are people from outside of the wrestling bubble who come in and do

99

00:07:26,093 --> 00:07:27,634

amazing themes for wrestlers.

100

00:07:27,634 --> 00:07:30,877

And some of those are my favorites because...

101

00:07:30,973 --> 00:07:40,161

You know, no matter how creative you can be, there's always going to be a little signature

of, okay, this person's been in the wrestling bubble or they score in a certain way or,

102

00:07:40,161 --> 00:07:41,502

you know, different things like that.

103

00:07:41,502 --> 00:07:51,870

But with someone such as yourself, who's coming from outside and doing all these different

projects, you now all of a sudden have a gentleman in Hangman Adam Page, who's come from

104

00:07:51,870 --> 00:07:57,546

New Japan, who's come from doing all these independent dates and is now going to AEW.

105

00:07:57,546 --> 00:08:01,210

and has this brand new theme to represent him.

106

00:08:01,210 --> 00:08:13,222

So how does it start with you getting either connected with AEW or getting connected with

Adam Page and having that conversation of you're going to be the sonic force behind Adam

107

00:08:13,222 --> 00:08:13,733

Page?

108

00:08:13,733 --> 00:08:17,205

I honestly, don't even, I don't know if I'm doing it right.

109

00:08:17,366 --> 00:08:25,533

Like, you would know, but I don't, you know, I'm coming from someone who doesn't work on

wrestling themes as you know, vocation.

110

00:08:25,533 --> 00:08:27,115

I don't really know that I'm doing it right.

111

00:08:27,115 --> 00:08:39,656

But I think Adam reached out to me and he had just found a track of mine that he liked

originally for his theme that was not composed specifically for him and he wanted to use

112

00:08:39,656 --> 00:08:40,316

it.

113

00:08:40,380 --> 00:08:43,241

And I said, yeah, sure, go ahead, use it.

114

00:08:43,241 --> 00:08:46,064

And then things started to take off for him.

115

00:08:46,064 --> 00:08:47,701

People liked the theme.

116

00:08:47,701 --> 00:08:53,218

I think AEW had to contact me to say, hey, can you put this theme on like Spotify?

117

00:08:53,218 --> 00:08:55,239

Because people like listening to it.

118

00:08:55,239 --> 00:08:57,150

That was a surprise to me.

119

00:08:57,150 --> 00:08:58,910

I was like, OK, sure.

120

00:08:58,971 --> 00:09:00,442

And then, yeah, people liked it.

121

00:09:00,442 --> 00:09:03,594

So I did another one that was just kind of like,

122

00:09:03,764 --> 00:09:13,862

taking that theme and exploring it more, doing something more custom, because what he had

originally gravitated toward was something I didn't do specifically for him.

123

00:09:13,862 --> 00:09:22,547

like, let's just see where we can take this in a cinematic sense and make it kind of grand

and go on a journey somewhere.

124

00:09:22,647 --> 00:09:26,280

So I did that and people seemed to like that too.

125

00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:32,355

And now he hit me up, I think it was over the summer and said, Hey, look, I'm kind of.

126

00:09:32,355 --> 00:09:35,058

changing gears here, I'm gonna do something different.

127

00:09:35,058 --> 00:09:39,841

I'm gonna, you know, wear my black hat now and can you do something for me?

128

00:09:39,841 --> 00:09:42,663

So I said, sure, let's try it out.

129

00:09:42,843 --> 00:09:43,604

And it's fun.

130

00:09:43,604 --> 00:09:55,483

I don't, you know, since I don't know the conventions of wrestling themes, I don't know if

I'm doing it wrong or doing it right or what you can tell me, but I'm just kind of looking

131

00:09:55,483 --> 00:09:59,001

at it from the sense of here's a character, what can we...

132

00:09:59,001 --> 00:10:02,542

make to kind of represent him in a musical way.

133

00:10:02,542 --> 00:10:04,833

Well, I mean, you you're saying Black Hat.

134

00:10:04,833 --> 00:10:05,874

think that's very true.

135

00:10:05,874 --> 00:10:09,135

He did burn down a house in this new iteration of his.

136

00:10:09,135 --> 00:10:20,430

And it's been really cool to see how for somebody in the bubble of knowing Adam Page's

story from being kind of like, if you, if you're kind of taking AEW as it is, the newer

137

00:10:20,430 --> 00:10:28,264

face that was grouped in with all of these brand new high level talents coming in or high

visibility talent, so to speak, saying, Hey,

138

00:10:28,264 --> 00:10:31,076

He's developing his character over the course of X amount of years.

139

00:10:31,076 --> 00:10:34,289

Now he's where he's at, where he's gone a bit to the dark side.

140

00:10:34,289 --> 00:10:40,213

And a bit is a very, very, very light term of that, as many of you know.

141

00:10:40,213 --> 00:10:43,975

If you don't, Google Hangman Adam Page versus Suarez Strickland.

142

00:10:43,975 --> 00:10:47,478

And then get back to me, pause this, come back, welcome back to the show.

143

00:10:47,478 --> 00:10:52,398

But when Adam Page comes to you for the first time, know you said that, correct me if I'm

wrong.

144

00:10:52,398 --> 00:10:56,802

You said that you had a track previously that he kind of heard and was like, that's really

cool.

145

00:10:56,802 --> 00:11:00,875

So now he wants you to work with him on another theme.

146

00:11:00,875 --> 00:11:10,432

When AEW comes about, are you having these conversations with him when he's on the

independence or are these conversations just starting when AEW starts?

147

00:11:10,432 --> 00:11:12,545

And he's like, hey, I need something that I can use for that.

148

00:11:12,545 --> 00:11:23,056

Yeah, I believe it was just when AEW starts and then he's looking for a theme, he's

looking around and he finds something I did and hits me up.

149

00:11:23,056 --> 00:11:29,984

So I don't know much about what his story was before then, so I don't exactly know what

was he doing.

150

00:11:29,984 --> 00:11:31,563

You said he was in Japan?

151

00:11:31,563 --> 00:11:32,013

Yeah.

152

00:11:32,013 --> 00:11:35,105

So with Adam Page, he's done a lot of different things.

153

00:11:35,105 --> 00:11:38,037

Most notably, he was with this group called Bullet Club.

154

00:11:38,037 --> 00:11:48,002

And essentially it's like all of these wrestlers coming in there, a bad guy stable, but

over time, the, as you know, with WWE being one of the staple promotions, if not the

155

00:11:48,002 --> 00:11:57,527

staple promotion at the time, New Japan and all these different companies, Ring of Honor,

and with the group Bullet Club, they all were able to really create a groundswell of

156

00:11:57,527 --> 00:12:00,949

support to make all of these independent wrestlers.

157

00:12:00,949 --> 00:12:04,453

really show that hey, professional wrestling is bigger than it's ever been.

158

00:12:04,453 --> 00:12:12,191

And when Adam Page was part of that group called Bullet Club, you could say that there

were other names like Kenny Omega, the Young Bucks, Cody Rhodes, all these different guys

159

00:12:12,191 --> 00:12:13,722

who were like the faces of it.

160

00:12:13,722 --> 00:12:19,697

And then they had these other guys which were great talents, but maybe not as visible or

not as developed yet.

161

00:12:19,697 --> 00:12:22,850

So when he goes into AEW, he joins with those guys.

162

00:12:22,850 --> 00:12:26,373

He's part of this group called the Elite, which is kind of an extension of that.

163

00:12:26,373 --> 00:12:27,868

And the Elite are...

164

00:12:27,868 --> 00:12:39,264

kind of the top names that come into AEW right away, on top of people that have come over,

new independent talents, but his story arc over time was, hey, I'm the guy that's

165

00:12:39,264 --> 00:12:49,389

connected with these people, but he, over time, ended up being what I would say is one of

the biggest success stories in AEW, saying, hey, I started off as somebody that was maybe

166

00:12:49,389 --> 00:12:54,290

a smaller name, and now I've grown into a household name at AEW.

167

00:12:54,290 --> 00:13:00,411

Was this any information that he was giving you when you were writing his theme saying,

this is the trajectory they want to take me on?

168

00:13:00,411 --> 00:13:06,180

Or was he more like, this is the character I'm representing, and saying, what can you do

for me for that?

169

00:13:07,016 --> 00:13:08,456

for this latest one?

170

00:13:08,456 --> 00:13:10,098

for the first one.

171

00:13:10,098 --> 00:13:15,089

For the first one, no, I got no information at all.

172

00:13:15,229 --> 00:13:18,694

He just liked the track and wanted to run with it.

173

00:13:18,694 --> 00:13:22,656

And it kind of gave me some ideas about what his character was like.

174

00:13:22,656 --> 00:13:29,099

And you could tell that from the piece of music that he was picking that, you know, this

is who his character is gonna be, I think.

175

00:13:29,099 --> 00:13:32,090

But yeah, I don't, you know, I just said, sure, go for it.

176

00:13:32,090 --> 00:13:34,901

And then completely forgot about it.

177

00:13:35,481 --> 00:13:42,838

wasn't paying attention until AEW reached out and was like, people like this track and

he's getting pretty popular.

178

00:13:42,838 --> 00:13:48,273

mean, was completely, I was oblivious to it.

179

00:13:49,009 --> 00:13:59,931

Now, when you see your music being used in video, in movies, in advertising, and in all

these different places, I'm sure for you intrinsically it feels one way, but when you're

180

00:13:59,931 --> 00:14:09,611

seeing that your music is going along with Adam Page and you see him coming out to it and

you see the crowd resonating with it, going crazy for him, and you see that he's totally

181

00:14:09,611 --> 00:14:12,990

in the moment, how does that make you feel seeing...

182

00:14:12,990 --> 00:14:20,590

the difference between something that may be a pre-recorded medium that you've done as

opposed to something where there's this live element where people are reacting in real

183

00:14:20,590 --> 00:14:23,446

time to work that you've done in the moment.

184

00:14:23,918 --> 00:14:28,101

It's cool, yeah, it's cool to see people dig it, you know?

185

00:14:28,101 --> 00:14:33,974

I don't really love watching my music on things, you know, when I've done something.

186

00:14:33,974 --> 00:14:44,009

I usually don't like to watch it afterwards, especially since a lot of times I work on

things where I will be watching it hundreds of times and working to it.

187

00:14:44,009 --> 00:14:48,911

And then during all that process, I can always go back usually.

188

00:14:49,279 --> 00:14:55,922

and change things or do things differently or if I hear something that's off, I can fix

it.

189

00:14:56,023 --> 00:15:01,506

But once it's out there and it's done, I usually don't like to watch it because I can't go

back and change it.

190

00:15:01,506 --> 00:15:12,932

I get worried about I'm gonna hear something and I'm not gonna like it and I'm not gonna

be able to change it and it's gonna like, just, I'm gonna get stuck in my head and I won't

191

00:15:12,932 --> 00:15:14,994

be able to stop thinking about it.

192

00:15:14,994 --> 00:15:17,815

So I generally don't like to.

193

00:15:17,873 --> 00:15:26,809

go back and listen, but it is cool to see people rocking out to the theme or liking it or

the crowd going crazy.

194

00:15:26,809 --> 00:15:29,231

That is cool, but I don't love.

195

00:15:29,231 --> 00:15:33,435

I'd rather watch it with the sound off so I don't have to go, I should have changed that.

196

00:15:33,435 --> 00:15:35,295

I don't like that.

197

00:15:35,476 --> 00:15:39,288

But what, in your mind, what makes a great wrestling theme?

198

00:15:39,288 --> 00:15:42,021

Are there components that you think are...

199

00:15:42,582 --> 00:15:43,753

are crucial.

200

00:15:44,013 --> 00:15:47,016

Yeah, I'll always go back to a few beat points.

201

00:15:47,016 --> 00:15:52,942

The first one, obviously, is it has to be representative of the character.

202

00:15:52,942 --> 00:16:02,911

for me, one of the things that I really like to ask wrestlers when I work with them is,

before we even get started on anything, what do you want people to know about you before

203

00:16:02,911 --> 00:16:03,962

you even get to the ring?

204

00:16:03,962 --> 00:16:07,986

And you can use any visual medium that even you've scored for as an example.

205

00:16:07,986 --> 00:16:09,117

Hey, what...

206

00:16:09,217 --> 00:16:11,548

is the vibe of this movie.

207

00:16:11,548 --> 00:16:14,109

Like for example, it's used to John Benet-Ramsay movie.

208

00:16:14,109 --> 00:16:21,963

You're not going to score that in the same way you would score up or the way that you

would score 101 Dalmatians or anything like that.

209

00:16:21,963 --> 00:16:24,665

It's got a very different flair, it's got a very different vibe.

210

00:16:24,665 --> 00:16:29,887

And for that, you want to really match what the character is.

211

00:16:29,887 --> 00:16:34,209

For me, one of the things that I've always tried to do is...

212

00:16:34,577 --> 00:16:42,811

There's this dynamic in wrestling where it's, okay, you have good guys, you have bad guys,

and you have some people that kind of skirt that line, like these tweeners, where they're

213

00:16:42,811 --> 00:16:45,543

kind of good, kind of bad, they do different things in that way.

214

00:16:45,543 --> 00:16:51,045

But I think the most effective themes are the ones that really tell the story of each

character.

215

00:16:51,045 --> 00:16:58,449

know, hangman Adam Page right now has gone very dark and very bad and very much of an ass

kicker.

216

00:16:58,449 --> 00:17:02,358

But if you know why...

217

00:17:02,358 --> 00:17:08,502

it makes sense that the theme that you made for him, we'll talk about in a sec, the second

one is significantly darker.

218

00:17:08,502 --> 00:17:19,968

But with the first one, the first one could have worked, I think, in both a good guy and

bad guy dynamic, because it showcases more of his rough and tough style.

219

00:17:19,968 --> 00:17:26,693

It showcases more of him having to overcome whatever challenges they are, by whatever

means he has to.

220

00:17:26,693 --> 00:17:29,911

The other thing I'll always say, and this is something I think with...

221

00:17:29,911 --> 00:17:40,200

even the fans that they get it and something that talent asks for all the time now, there

has to be a quick identifier when somebody first hits the ring or before they even walk

222

00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:40,640

out.

223

00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:46,047

Something that is a quick identifier to say, hey, this is who's coming out as opposed to

something generic.

224

00:17:46,047 --> 00:17:47,446

It could be a catchphrase.

225

00:17:47,446 --> 00:17:57,294

It could be something in the style of, like one thing that you did awesome in that first

theme was you've got that jangly guitar going on and you have those, you have the horse

226

00:17:57,294 --> 00:17:58,763

footsteps also.

227

00:17:58,763 --> 00:18:03,137

All of that tells you it's Adam Page before he even gets to the ring.

228

00:18:03,137 --> 00:18:13,565

And I forget which pay-per-view it was, but he was off for a little bit and he came back

into, I'm going to say it was the Casino Battle Royale where he ended up earning a shot at

229

00:18:13,565 --> 00:18:14,837

the championship.

230

00:18:14,837 --> 00:18:16,318

He was off for a couple of months.

231

00:18:16,318 --> 00:18:21,082

As soon as you heard that first one or two seconds, instantly crowd pops.

232

00:18:21,082 --> 00:18:22,103

You knew who it was.

233

00:18:22,103 --> 00:18:23,644

He comes out and that's it.

234

00:18:23,644 --> 00:18:27,769

But before he even came out, you didn't even have to see him on the stage to know he was

there.

235

00:18:27,769 --> 00:18:33,064

you heard that first one or two seconds of the piece and you were like, yeah, that's him.

236

00:18:33,064 --> 00:18:35,776

Those to me are two of the most important things.

237

00:18:35,776 --> 00:18:46,135

And I think that even though you haven't been in the wrestling bubble, all the work that

you've done in media just drives that point home that you know what you have to do.

238

00:18:46,603 --> 00:18:54,292

Yeah, there's almost like a signature that you get in that first couple seconds that

identifies who it is, right?

239

00:18:54,292 --> 00:18:57,176

Now, the themes, do they have to hit hard?

240

00:18:57,176 --> 00:18:58,857

Is that important?

241

00:18:59,358 --> 00:19:02,009

Are there any themes that don't hit hard?

242

00:19:02,009 --> 00:19:03,580

Yeah, I think it varies.

243

00:19:03,580 --> 00:19:05,681

It varies person to person.

244

00:19:05,701 --> 00:19:10,645

There's a couple of themes that I'll even go back to Don Callis's theme right now.

245

00:19:10,645 --> 00:19:15,027

If you know Don Callis in WWF years ago, he used to be Jackal.

246

00:19:15,027 --> 00:19:16,598

Now he's Don Callis.

247

00:19:16,598 --> 00:19:21,961

He has this whole thing called the Don Callis family, but he's like the most despicable

person in kayfabe.

248

00:19:21,961 --> 00:19:23,162

I've never met him in real life.

249

00:19:23,162 --> 00:19:31,005

So not speaking to you, the gentlemen, but in this, it's literally just a low synth pad on

like A1.

250

00:19:31,005 --> 00:19:33,186

just held down for two and a half minutes.

251

00:19:33,186 --> 00:19:43,640

And you just see his like kind of pasty face on screen, this kind of leathery looking face

and the backdrop that they created for, for AEW is like red and disgusting.

252

00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:46,092

And it's like, that's all you need for him.

253

00:19:46,092 --> 00:19:46,912

It doesn't hit.

254

00:19:46,912 --> 00:19:47,862

There's no rhythm.

255

00:19:47,862 --> 00:19:52,634

When I say it's just a synth pad in that A1 register, that's all it is.

256

00:19:52,634 --> 00:19:59,303

But a lot of wrestlers like to have something where the beat represents kind of what they

do.

257

00:19:59,303 --> 00:20:04,593

with someone like Adam Page, you didn't have something which was super fast where he felt

like he had to run to the ring.

258

00:20:04,593 --> 00:20:09,859

You also didn't have something that felt like he was Godzilla where it was slow prodding

and he was breaking buildings.

259

00:20:09,859 --> 00:20:15,303

You had something that had a really strong defined beat like when he was walking to the

ring.

260

00:20:15,303 --> 00:20:17,074

So it gives him that strong stature.

261

00:20:17,074 --> 00:20:22,297

And when you spoke to him, when you spoke to Adam Page, was that something that he

requested from you?

262

00:20:22,297 --> 00:20:27,968

Hey, I love this piece, but when I walk to the ring, it's gotta have this kind of beat,

it's gotta be this kind of speed.

263

00:20:27,968 --> 00:20:34,733

What were some of the things that he asked you for specifically that maybe you wouldn't

have gleaned from just the piece that you had written before?

264

00:20:34,733 --> 00:20:40,172

I think he was conscious of not wanting things to be too slow.

265

00:20:40,172 --> 00:20:50,317

I don't think he mentioned a specific tempo he wanted, but he's like, kind of want

something like this, but this might be too slow.

266

00:20:50,317 --> 00:20:54,321

Could you maybe speed it up a little bit?

267

00:20:54,321 --> 00:20:58,278

I think he's conscious of that, but not a lot of specifics.

268

00:20:58,278 --> 00:21:03,633

think he's more interested in the overall vibe he's trying to catch.

269

00:21:03,633 --> 00:21:08,038

know, that spaghetti western outlaw vibe.

270

00:21:08,038 --> 00:21:15,855

And he just kind of wants a real authentic kind of sound that kind of goes along with his

character.

271

00:21:15,855 --> 00:21:17,786

just fits him, you know?

272

00:21:18,255 --> 00:21:18,735

Totally.

273

00:21:18,735 --> 00:21:25,089

And now we're going to talk a bit about what we have known now for the last couple months

with hangman Adam Page.

274

00:21:25,089 --> 00:21:36,145

And I keep going back to a couple of the beat points that have, you know, gotten him from

being just a great cowboy shit, as we say, and from what he says, going all the way now

275

00:21:36,145 --> 00:21:44,069

into the theme that you created, the second theme, black hat, which if anyone here knows

Adam Page, you know what he's been through.

276

00:21:44,069 --> 00:21:46,670

Someone went to his house and threatened his kid in a crib.

277

00:21:46,670 --> 00:21:47,791

I don't know about you.

278

00:21:47,791 --> 00:21:52,511

That's a real good reason to get real mad and kind of go dark and do all that kind of

stuff.

279

00:21:52,531 --> 00:21:58,051

Especially when the guy that did that, Swerve, went ahead and said, you know what, I'm a

changed man.

280

00:21:58,051 --> 00:21:59,591

No, you don't do that to my kid.

281

00:21:59,591 --> 00:22:02,171

I don't think someone would do that to your kid and get away with it.

282

00:22:02,171 --> 00:22:08,251

So, you know, all of a sudden hangman Adam Page goes, I'm going from Ghost Town Triumph.

283

00:22:08,251 --> 00:22:09,711

I have this great theme.

284

00:22:09,711 --> 00:22:16,311

Then he comes back to you and says, and I'm just paraphrasing probably what he said to

you, Swerve threatened my kid.

285

00:22:16,311 --> 00:22:17,645

I need a meaner theme.

286

00:22:17,645 --> 00:22:22,188

How does that conversation look in terms of taking him from ghost town triumph to black

cat?

287

00:22:22,188 --> 00:22:24,890

Pretty much like that, yeah.

288

00:22:24,890 --> 00:22:34,038

I've been away for a little while, I'm coming back, I'm pissed, I'm going badass, I need

something that fits.

289

00:22:34,038 --> 00:22:43,846

Let's make it dark, let's go full on, know, badass, know, burn the town down type of

theme.

290

00:22:44,163 --> 00:22:49,613

I think he's into a lot of Western music too, so he kind knows what he wants.

291

00:22:49,613 --> 00:22:54,760

He kind of was steering me in that direction that we ultimately went.

292

00:22:55,460 --> 00:22:56,100

It's awesome.

293

00:22:56,100 --> 00:23:01,902

One of the things I love most about the theme, first off, is again, it's a perfect theme

for them.

294

00:23:01,902 --> 00:23:11,175

And for those who are watching the visuals too with AEW, many of you know how it's an

unwritten rule, but they have the, I forget which side it is, but one of the sides are

295

00:23:11,175 --> 00:23:14,366

where the good guys come out, one of the sides where the bad guys come out.

296

00:23:14,366 --> 00:23:16,306

It's something that's so subtle.

297

00:23:16,306 --> 00:23:20,007

No one necessarily says it on screen all the time, but it's just something subtle.

298

00:23:20,007 --> 00:23:23,168

And for the first little bit that he was using,

299

00:23:23,172 --> 00:23:26,415

Ghost Town Triumph, was kind of in the middle of, I'm gonna go up the good way.

300

00:23:26,415 --> 00:23:30,617

But once he really started using Black Hat, he ended up walking up the bad guy ramp.

301

00:23:30,617 --> 00:23:37,082

And it's cool to see dynamics like that, but the other thing that I love about the theme

is it starts off with those bells.

302

00:23:37,082 --> 00:23:42,666

The bells are such a funeral dredge kind of feel to Black Hat.

303

00:23:42,666 --> 00:23:45,929

And, you know, I don't know if this is intentional.

304

00:23:45,950 --> 00:23:50,733

I'm pretty sure they're both in, like, the key of A something.

305

00:23:51,193 --> 00:23:58,038

I'm pretty sure that Ghost Town Triumph is in the key of A major or A adjacent, something

like that.

306

00:23:58,038 --> 00:24:00,180

And then I'm pretty sure that...

307

00:24:00,180 --> 00:24:03,162

my gosh, now I'm forgetting the name of the second one, it's Black Hat.

308

00:24:03,162 --> 00:24:06,524

I'm pretty sure that Black Hat is in A adjacent.

309

00:24:06,524 --> 00:24:17,300

And for those who are not musically literate, you have different scales that you can play

in, you have different keys that music is in, but I like to say sometimes it's in A

310

00:24:17,300 --> 00:24:18,390

something.

311

00:24:18,430 --> 00:24:27,696

Because at one point, so long as your kind of main note that you keep going back to or

your main home base is A, you can kind of float things around that.

312

00:24:27,696 --> 00:24:29,577

Were things like that intentional?

313

00:24:29,577 --> 00:24:38,123

And do you remember if there were any other themes that you took maybe from Ghost Town

Triumph that you brought into Black Hat to tie them together?

314

00:24:38,123 --> 00:24:44,719

don't think I took any themes specifically other than just the overall vibe.

315

00:24:44,719 --> 00:24:48,932

I think I started, I wanted to start it almost like you're not sure.

316

00:24:48,932 --> 00:24:59,942

It starts with almost like a little train groove on some brushes like you're, like we're

almost, we're in a country land and things are, you're not sure which way it's gonna go

317

00:24:59,942 --> 00:25:03,214

and it's just building and building and then kind of.

318

00:25:03,738 --> 00:25:07,827

it falls off and we go into, know, we're in some dark territory.

319

00:25:07,827 --> 00:25:22,393

So I wanted to try to build it up like that from the beginning and just, I wasn't sure how

prevalent or how strong the melody was gonna be, but it ended up being very strong, which.

320

00:25:22,882 --> 00:25:31,209

I'm not sure if that is usually something that's done in wrestling themes, but it went

with a pretty big melody that's right in your face.

321

00:25:31,209 --> 00:25:46,007

yeah, I tried to make the drums just kind of hit as hard as I could, like a big kit that's

got some filth on it and some big brass that's low brass that's kind of punching you in

322

00:25:46,007 --> 00:25:46,683

the gut.

323

00:25:46,683 --> 00:25:57,878

Just tried to do all the things I could to kind of make it just filthy, vintage, nasty,

western, kind of grungy almost.

324

00:25:58,793 --> 00:26:00,504

And I think all of that is true.

325

00:26:00,504 --> 00:26:10,151

And I think one thing that with the melody in Black Hat, that was a little bit different

than what you had done with Ghost Town Triumph also, Ghost Town Triumph had melody, but it

326

00:26:10,151 --> 00:26:12,592

was really with a lot of the other instruments.

327

00:26:12,592 --> 00:26:16,156

You have this lone instrument in Black Hat.

328

00:26:16,156 --> 00:26:19,118

I think it's, I'm going to get it wrong, even though I shouldn't.

329

00:26:19,118 --> 00:26:22,670

It sounds like a high pitched clarinet, or is it a trumpet?

330

00:26:23,415 --> 00:26:24,872

no, it's a harmonica.

331

00:26:24,872 --> 00:26:25,973

Harmonica, okay.

332

00:26:25,973 --> 00:26:35,251

So you have that really carrying the main theme whereas before, and again, this may be

subtle things, but you could make the tie that before, even though he's a cowboy and he

333

00:26:35,251 --> 00:26:45,691

has this element of him being this person that has to do it on his own, you could make the

argument that the melody being with the strings is kind of more like representative of him

334

00:26:45,691 --> 00:26:47,834

being in a group, so to speak, right?

335

00:26:47,834 --> 00:26:49,839

Or not necessarily him being in a group.

336

00:26:49,839 --> 00:26:52,312

but him being part of the fans, that kind of thing.

337

00:26:52,312 --> 00:26:56,416

Whereas now you've got this lone melody where it's like, nope, I'm completely alone.

338

00:26:56,416 --> 00:26:57,967

Forget it, screw you guys.

339

00:26:57,967 --> 00:26:59,038

This is what we're doing.

340

00:26:59,038 --> 00:27:02,361

So I don't know if that was an intentional decision also.

341

00:27:02,391 --> 00:27:13,212

And that first theme, the melody is partly being carried by like a choir, you know,

there's vocal in there, which probably also speaks to this, you know, we're in a group

342

00:27:13,212 --> 00:27:14,834

kind of vibe.

343

00:27:14,835 --> 00:27:20,340

But this one, think Adam specifically asked for harmonica on this.

344

00:27:20,340 --> 00:27:22,641

was feeling that here, like it's...

345

00:27:23,182 --> 00:27:30,397

I guess your outlaw instrument of choice would be the harmonica, so he wanted that and

asked for it specifically.

346

00:27:30,746 --> 00:27:31,327

That's awesome.

347

00:27:31,327 --> 00:27:37,793

Now for you, just more from a musical side or maybe how you've seen the reaction to

everything.

348

00:27:37,793 --> 00:27:44,019

For you specifically, do you have a favorite out of Ghost Town Triumph or Black Hat?

349

00:27:44,019 --> 00:27:47,479

And if so, why do you choose one over the other?

350

00:27:47,479 --> 00:27:48,974

probably Black Hat.

351

00:27:48,974 --> 00:27:57,945

But the one that I did in between, I think it was a hangman's journey, think, or, yeah, a

hangman's tale.

352

00:27:58,205 --> 00:28:01,585

That's the one where I really wanted to take it on a journey.

353

00:28:01,885 --> 00:28:07,456

I think I probably, that's my favorite, just because it goes to so many different places.

354

00:28:07,456 --> 00:28:08,916

It almost.

355

00:28:09,329 --> 00:28:22,838

It states the theme from the first one and then it kind of goes to this kind of string,

almost funeral type, very melodic thing where it really breaks down and then it comes back

356

00:28:22,838 --> 00:28:27,029

up and absolutely hits really hard and gets back into the theme.

357

00:28:27,029 --> 00:28:29,840

That's probably my favorite one just because it's...

358

00:28:30,392 --> 00:28:34,804

It's very diverse and it really takes you on a journey somewhere, you know?

359

00:28:34,804 --> 00:28:35,334

And you know what?

360

00:28:35,334 --> 00:28:37,887

I feel terrible that I haven't brought up Hangman's Tale.

361

00:28:37,887 --> 00:28:45,032

And I think maybe part of the reason I haven't yet is because it's more like it is

connected to Ghost Town Triumph.

362

00:28:45,032 --> 00:28:47,014

And then we have this complete departure.

363

00:28:47,014 --> 00:28:47,875

And you know what?

364

00:28:47,875 --> 00:28:52,479

Hangman Page just wrestled on World's End, so I'm probably just like, that's the other one

in my head.

365

00:28:52,479 --> 00:29:02,917

But when you go to, for example, having Ghost Town Triumph and then going to Hangman's

Tale again, you have all these different elements that from those two, you can say there's

366

00:29:02,917 --> 00:29:04,488

a lot of connection points.

367

00:29:04,488 --> 00:29:13,874

That sounds like that was intentional of instead of like Black Hat being like complete

departure outside of the style, Hangman's Tale, it was more like, hey, we want to make a

368

00:29:13,874 --> 00:29:18,982

connected journey from where you were at the beginning of your AEW journey to where you

are now.

369

00:29:19,784 --> 00:29:23,167

Yeah, that's not a theme, an entrance theme.

370

00:29:23,308 --> 00:29:37,459

That was really, since he chose this piece of music that I didn't write specifically for

him and then people seem to connect with it and like it, was like, just felt like, let me

371

00:29:37,799 --> 00:29:39,160

just see what I can do with this.

372

00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:43,767

Since I didn't really have a chance to write this from scratch for this, let me.

373

00:29:43,767 --> 00:29:50,472

see what I can do with this now, given what I know now about this character and what's

happened with this piece of music.

374

00:29:50,472 --> 00:29:57,567

It wasn't intended for this, but what can I do with this idea that is intended for this

character?

375

00:29:57,567 --> 00:30:06,760

It's so interesting to see too, because like you said, it's a lot of the times you have

someone coming right off the bat saying, this is my character and this is what I'm looking

376

00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:07,400

to do.

377

00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:12,472

And it seems like there's so many elements that have been pulled to make this awesome

Hangman theme.

378

00:30:12,472 --> 00:30:19,394

And I know that you keep saying, you're like, I'm not of the wrestling bubble, but I

always tell people that have asked me like about getting into entrance themes, what's

379

00:30:19,394 --> 00:30:20,544

really important.

380

00:30:20,544 --> 00:30:22,547

You know, the biggest thing I think is,

381

00:30:22,547 --> 00:30:29,330

my time in scoring media as well, always been wrestlers are like TV shows or wrestlers are

like movies.

382

00:30:29,330 --> 00:30:32,041

Everyone has their own individual story.

383

00:30:32,041 --> 00:30:37,414

Hangman Page, probably one of the most dynamic in AEW, but everybody has their own

dynamic.

384

00:30:37,414 --> 00:30:48,491

Everybody has their own story and your background in doing music for film, for TV, for all

these different things, I think really helps satisfy that need.

385

00:30:48,491 --> 00:30:49,401

for wrestlers too.

386

00:30:49,401 --> 00:30:57,623

And the reason why I'm so happy to have this conversation with you today is the fact that

you don't come from the wrestling bubble.

387

00:30:57,623 --> 00:31:00,114

You come from the background of the composer.

388

00:31:00,114 --> 00:31:07,967

And I think that's really important because you're not just seeing it from, someone has to

have this quick spot here and then they have 90 seconds together.

389

00:31:07,967 --> 00:31:16,820

You're seeing it very much from the way of who's this person, what's their story, and what

is the arc that they plan to go to over the course of time.

390

00:31:16,820 --> 00:31:17,694

Very much.

391

00:31:17,694 --> 00:31:19,783

like the other stuff that you've scored over time.

392

00:31:19,783 --> 00:31:31,670

Yeah, I may not have worked in the wrestling world, so I don't know the exact conventions

or the things to do or not to do specifically, but these are, at the end of the day, like

393

00:31:31,670 --> 00:31:33,280

you said, these are characters.

394

00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:38,242

Just like, you know, a comic book has characters.

395

00:31:38,242 --> 00:31:43,633

And some are good, some are bad, and they all have their own style, costume.

396

00:31:43,633 --> 00:31:47,835

Et cetera, you're writing to the character, which I guess is universal.

397

00:31:47,835 --> 00:31:57,180

What you do in a video game, you do TV show, film, whatever, characters, you know, are the

same across all medium, right?

398

00:31:57,180 --> 00:32:05,377

So you're just writing to that and forgetting about what exactly this character does or

what the medium is or any of that, I think.

399

00:32:05,377 --> 00:32:11,360

There's always a need for a good guy, there's always a need for a bad guy, and there's

always a need for like somewhere in the middle.

400

00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:12,351

Are they really good?

401

00:32:12,351 --> 00:32:13,351

Are they really bad?

402

00:32:13,351 --> 00:32:14,362

Are the intentions?

403

00:32:14,362 --> 00:32:15,323

All that kind of stuff.

404

00:32:15,323 --> 00:32:16,959

So it makes total sense.

405

00:32:16,788 --> 00:32:21,842

now with hangman Adam page, you've done all of these different themes for him.

406

00:32:21,842 --> 00:32:23,002

What's next for you?

407

00:32:23,002 --> 00:32:24,084

What do you got coming up?

408

00:32:24,084 --> 00:32:25,386

I don't know right now.

409

00:32:25,386 --> 00:32:29,731

I just finished that show that came out that I did with Serj Tankian.

410

00:32:29,731 --> 00:32:32,876

I do a lot of work with him from the singer from System of a Down.

411

00:32:32,876 --> 00:32:36,419

We've worked on a lot of shows together, maybe another one of those.

412

00:32:36,419 --> 00:32:39,223

But the new year is wide open right now.

413

00:32:39,223 --> 00:32:42,866

I'm not sure what's gonna happen, but that's exciting.

414

00:32:43,301 --> 00:32:45,272

Perhaps a new show is gonna come up.

415

00:32:45,272 --> 00:32:50,777

Maybe Adam comes back and says he needs a do-theme, because he's gonna do something else.

416

00:32:50,777 --> 00:32:51,778

But I don't know.

417

00:32:51,778 --> 00:32:53,509

I'm not sure right now.

418

00:32:53,639 --> 00:32:57,461

Now, I would be remiss also as a huge system of a down fan.

419

00:32:57,461 --> 00:32:58,842

How is it working with him?

420

00:32:58,842 --> 00:33:10,259

I know he is a very creative character and someone that's been an influence on me for

years, little me, little considering 14, 15 years old, but how's it like working with him

421

00:33:10,259 --> 00:33:13,551

and what's the dynamic between you two when you guys work together?

422

00:33:13,831 --> 00:33:14,671

It's great.

423

00:33:14,671 --> 00:33:18,471

He is one of the greatest guys to work with.

424

00:33:18,551 --> 00:33:27,631

I he's just so creative and he makes it fun, you know, because it's always joking around.

425

00:33:27,631 --> 00:33:40,631

We have a lot of fun working on stuff and I've been working with him on different things,

you know, here and there since probably 08, 09.

426

00:33:40,771 --> 00:33:43,809

I was, I was,

427

00:33:43,809 --> 00:33:49,863

an assistant for another composer way back then, Tom Holkenborg, Junkie XL, the composer.

428

00:33:49,863 --> 00:34:01,832

And we worked on a project with Serge and it was to mix a live record, he did, but the

orchestra was recorded very poorly.

429

00:34:01,832 --> 00:34:05,735

Whoever recorded the orchestra, there was a lot of clicks and...

430

00:34:05,735 --> 00:34:15,735

it was just very poorly recorded so I had to go through the entire score for the whole

show and basically play in the orchestra line by line.

431

00:34:16,175 --> 00:34:29,115

So we did that, it came out great and then yeah, he was working on an album after that in

09, 2010 and I worked with him on that and from there we just have been working on various

432

00:34:29,115 --> 00:34:32,746

things throughout the years and started getting into doing

433

00:34:32,746 --> 00:34:36,893

these shows and it's been fun but he's such a great guy to work with.

434

00:34:36,893 --> 00:34:39,093

mean he's great.

435

00:34:39,093 --> 00:34:48,166

He seems like it and over the years you see how creative he can be and you see how

creative you can be and it's just one of these things where it's such expressive stuff

436

00:34:48,166 --> 00:34:57,968

that he does in music too and you know unfortunately many of us are like hey system of a

down should do a reunion and he's like nope so you know if you do the reunions live but in

437

00:34:57,968 --> 00:35:07,945

terms of doing like a full record he's like I'd rather not which is totally fine it is

your creative prerogative but on ropes and riffs I will say from one fan

438

00:35:07,945 --> 00:35:10,908

one 36 year old fan at the time of this recording to you.

439

00:35:10,908 --> 00:35:12,769

I'm speaking to you through the camera.

440

00:35:12,769 --> 00:35:14,350

Please, one more record.

441

00:35:14,350 --> 00:35:18,315

Just to say you did, but I digress completely here.

442

00:35:18,315 --> 00:35:25,842

It's been, it's an interesting time to see that you guys are working together and you guys

have worked together, like you said, over the course of time.

443

00:35:25,842 --> 00:35:35,518

One more thing I do want to bring up regarding Hangman Adams Page's theme, just to be able

to dovetail that, is the Dead to Rights music that

444

00:35:35,518 --> 00:35:40,521

these wolves did, formally called this wolf, but we know him here as good buddy Darren.

445

00:35:40,521 --> 00:35:48,806

So he was able to put together what I thought was a really great rendition of the Hangman

Adam Page theme, give it little bit more of a rock element to it.

446

00:35:48,806 --> 00:35:50,007

First off, have you heard it?

447

00:35:50,007 --> 00:35:52,248

And second, how did that come to fruition?

448

00:35:52,248 --> 00:35:59,471

Had he reached out to you, tell us a little bit about what you thought of that song and

how maybe the communication went with you and him.

449

00:35:59,761 --> 00:36:00,671

Yeah, I heard it.

450

00:36:00,671 --> 00:36:01,694

It's great.

451

00:36:01,694 --> 00:36:08,192

I'm honored that he would take Little O' Me's music and redo it like that.

452

00:36:08,192 --> 00:36:09,343

It's really cool.

453

00:36:09,343 --> 00:36:14,608

And he reached out, think when he was almost done and said, hey, this is what I've got.

454

00:36:14,608 --> 00:36:16,770

Are you okay with me putting this out?

455

00:36:16,770 --> 00:36:19,312

And I was like, yeah, man, go for it.

456

00:36:19,312 --> 00:36:20,433

It's really cool.

457

00:36:20,433 --> 00:36:22,035

That's something that's...

458

00:36:22,274 --> 00:36:31,887

Amazing to see when you write music is someone take what you've written and kind of run

with it and do something you wouldn't even think of.

459

00:36:31,887 --> 00:36:36,269

mean, it's honestly an honor to have him do something.

460

00:36:37,410 --> 00:36:47,741

Yeah, I mean, it's cool when something you write takes on a life of its own and kind of

people pick it up and take it somewhere else and do something with it.

461

00:36:47,741 --> 00:36:48,919

That's awesome.

462

00:36:49,011 --> 00:36:51,542

And you know it really resonates with people too at that point.

463

00:36:51,542 --> 00:36:56,866

You know, I think that for me, I've done music now professionally for about 10, 12 years.

464

00:36:56,866 --> 00:37:04,850

And I think for me doing film music, doing wrestling entrance themes, it's so different

than going and performing.

465

00:37:04,850 --> 00:37:06,661

And for me, I'd performed for years.

466

00:37:06,661 --> 00:37:07,813

I still perform lightly.

467

00:37:07,813 --> 00:37:10,145

But when you're performing, it's like, all right, cool.

468

00:37:10,145 --> 00:37:12,097

This is what I'm doing in this moment.

469

00:37:12,097 --> 00:37:13,197

Here's what we're doing.

470

00:37:13,197 --> 00:37:15,428

And you're getting that feedback there.

471

00:37:15,428 --> 00:37:16,917

But to see people

472

00:37:16,917 --> 00:37:21,652

like you're seeing with Hangman's theme or like with Darren saying, hey, you know what, I

want to go ahead and cover this.

473

00:37:21,652 --> 00:37:31,161

It really makes you go, you know what, I've made a difference here in a way, or it makes

you feel like, you know, the music that I've written doesn't just satisfy kind of what's

474

00:37:31,161 --> 00:37:34,414

in here, but it also really resonated with other people.

475

00:37:34,414 --> 00:37:35,165

And I agree with you.

476

00:37:35,165 --> 00:37:41,631

It's such a special feeling when you hear people say that or you see people taking it in a

different direction, like you're saying.

477

00:37:42,049 --> 00:37:48,332

Yeah, you write something and you're like, well, I kind of like this, but you know, we'll

see, I don't know.

478

00:37:48,332 --> 00:37:52,696

And you put it out there and you see that, wow, other people are liking it too.

479

00:37:52,696 --> 00:38:05,742

That's like the ultimate, you know, feeling of, yeah, you know, this was a cool idea and

it's resonating with people and that's really, that's amazing, you know.

480

00:38:06,149 --> 00:38:11,588

have you seen Hangman Page use black hat recently in what he's been doing?

481

00:38:11,588 --> 00:38:18,936

I think I saw our clip on YouTube shortly after the theme debuted and it's cool.

482

00:38:18,936 --> 00:38:19,989

I dig it.

483

00:38:19,989 --> 00:38:21,034

I like it.

484

00:38:21,034 --> 00:38:31,061

I think one of the big parts for me that really made me resonate with Black Hat was it's

at the end of the Adam Page swerve match where they were in the cage.

485

00:38:31,061 --> 00:38:37,986

And it's basically what I would say is Hangman's final descent into madness.

486

00:38:37,986 --> 00:38:48,033

Because before that he's going in, but he's basically trying to get the crowd to be like,

this guy went to my house and put his shirt in my kid's crib and threatened my kid.

487

00:38:48,033 --> 00:38:50,896

and you guys are cheering him because he's a good wrestler.

488

00:38:50,896 --> 00:38:54,719

I'm not happy about this and I'm gonna wreck shop on this guy.

489

00:38:54,719 --> 00:39:02,425

And there's one scene, and this is where I really thought that there's this magic between

Black Hat and what he was doing.

490

00:39:02,425 --> 00:39:05,938

There's this one scene where he's done everything he's done to swerve.

491

00:39:05,938 --> 00:39:09,572

He's done some heinous stuff, swerves in the ring, medics are there.

492

00:39:09,572 --> 00:39:16,227

He's walking up the ramp and as the show goes off the air, Hangman Page walks back to the

ring.

493

00:39:16,227 --> 00:39:25,901

but he's got this face that you don't know whether it's concern or whether it's I'm gonna

do more, but you start to see the breaking of this man happen kind of in real time.

494

00:39:26,041 --> 00:39:35,905

And then all of a sudden he kind of gets down on his knees in the middle of the ramp and

he just lets out like this primal just like anger and just this release.

495

00:39:35,905 --> 00:39:41,588

And some people will interpret it as he's finally broken, right?

496

00:39:41,588 --> 00:39:44,631

Or he didn't know that he could go to this place.

497

00:39:44,631 --> 00:39:51,967

but when you threaten somebody's kid, that's what happens, you know, or, you know, he

does, like, there's just all these emotions going on.

498

00:39:51,967 --> 00:40:01,535

I don't feel that Ghost, I don't feel that the first theme, I don't feel that hangman's

tale, I don't feel like Ghost Town Triumph would do that justice.

499

00:40:01,535 --> 00:40:10,413

I feel like the only theme that would do that justice is your hearing that leading to,

nah, nah, and then it hits, and you see him having this descent into madness.

500

00:40:10,413 --> 00:40:13,451

I think if you go and watch that back,

501

00:40:13,451 --> 00:40:18,967

If you haven't, or if you have, anybody go watch it again with this conversation in

context.

502

00:40:19,028 --> 00:40:30,151

I think it's the perfect theme to showcase Hangman's descent into madness and finally say,

this is who I am now, this is what we've done, and this is what y'all, and especially

503

00:40:30,151 --> 00:40:31,473

Swerve, have done to me.

504

00:40:31,473 --> 00:40:33,825

I don't think you could have written a better piece for that.

505

00:40:33,957 --> 00:40:35,299

That's wild, that's cool.

506

00:40:35,299 --> 00:40:38,992

Yeah, that theme has a little bit, it's kind of little crooked, you know?

507

00:40:38,992 --> 00:40:43,286

It's a little off, it's a little atonal or dissonant in ways.

508

00:40:43,286 --> 00:40:47,509

And I'm glad that it's kind of lining up with where it's going.

509

00:40:47,509 --> 00:40:50,061

You don't always know if it's gonna line up with the story.

510

00:40:50,061 --> 00:40:52,712

You just do this theme and then you see how it plays out.

511

00:40:52,712 --> 00:40:57,476

But it's cool that that kind of wonkiness or dissonance is kind of...

512

00:40:58,036 --> 00:41:02,075

is lining up with the storyline and where things are going.

513

00:41:02,180 --> 00:41:09,336

Yeah, and when I talk to wrestlers too, it's a lot of this kind of synergy between what

does the theme do to them before they get to the ring?

514

00:41:09,336 --> 00:41:11,148

Like what kind of headspace does it put them in?

515

00:41:11,148 --> 00:41:12,809

How is it when they're out there?

516

00:41:12,809 --> 00:41:15,611

And then how can they resonate with it?

517

00:41:15,611 --> 00:41:22,157

And I think that, you know, Adam Page has taken a different approach to coming to the ring

now that he's gone to be a bad guy.

518

00:41:22,157 --> 00:41:25,410

I think that all of that starts before he even gets through the curtain.

519

00:41:25,410 --> 00:41:27,873

And that's a testament to the work that you've done.

520

00:41:27,873 --> 00:41:29,826

That's a testament to the communication.

521

00:41:29,826 --> 00:41:31,747

between you and Hangman Page.

522

00:41:31,747 --> 00:41:34,729

And I know this is an isolated person.

523

00:41:34,729 --> 00:41:36,289

I know this is Hangman Page.

524

00:41:36,289 --> 00:41:39,230

I know this is just a one time that you've done it.

525

00:41:39,230 --> 00:41:42,911

But I hope this isn't the last of you doing entrance themes for wrestlers.

526

00:41:42,911 --> 00:41:50,004

Because I think that, you know, people just hearing these themes that you've done would

say, you know what, we should bring Vinny back and do way more.

527

00:41:50,004 --> 00:41:54,325

So I hope this isn't the last foray for you into the wrestling medium.

528

00:41:54,325 --> 00:41:54,693

But.

529

00:41:54,693 --> 00:41:55,543

hope so too.

530

00:41:55,543 --> 00:41:56,387

I hope so too.

531

00:41:56,387 --> 00:42:02,440

And now when you talk to wrestlers, they speak to how the themes kind of affect them?

532

00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:03,374

Is that something?

533

00:42:03,374 --> 00:42:04,065

definitely.

534

00:42:04,065 --> 00:42:09,339

And actually, just had a wrestler named Lindsay Dorado on the show not too long ago.

535

00:42:09,339 --> 00:42:12,061

And he's a gentleman who I've worked on a lot of different themes with.

536

00:42:12,061 --> 00:42:19,106

when I, it's funny, when I ask wrestlers before I write themes, I say, what do you want

the theme to evoke before you hit the ring?

537

00:42:19,106 --> 00:42:24,409

But while we're working on the theme, we're obviously talking about their influences and

things like that.

538

00:42:24,409 --> 00:42:31,486

A question that I had asked him years down the line, has he still using his theme as, and

while we did the interview for the show was,

539

00:42:31,486 --> 00:42:37,566

Is there a dynamic of having this theme do something to you before you even get through

the curtain?

540

00:42:37,566 --> 00:42:39,206

And he was like, absolutely.

541

00:42:39,206 --> 00:42:47,946

And it's something I had never thought before, even though you should, but he was just

like, even if the theme works for me, but it's not something that I can get into before I

542

00:42:47,946 --> 00:42:51,226

walk through, I'm basically acting, you know?

543

00:42:51,226 --> 00:42:59,954

And with wrestlers, you really see them do their best work when they're their own person

just dialed up to 11 or right before they hit.

544

00:42:59,954 --> 00:43:02,336

they know, okay, cool, I'm ready to go out.

545

00:43:02,336 --> 00:43:07,740

This is me before I hit the ring and this is me on the way to the ring when I get through

the curtain.

546

00:43:07,740 --> 00:43:16,956

So it's an interesting dynamic to know that a lot of wrestlers need to get into that

character, into that mode before they go through the curtain.

547

00:43:16,956 --> 00:43:23,310

And the theme that they have doesn't just represent them in front, but also gets them

behind the scenes.

548

00:43:23,602 --> 00:43:27,672

helps them get to where they need to be before they go out there.

549

00:43:27,672 --> 00:43:28,737

Is that what you're saying?

550

00:43:28,737 --> 00:43:29,737

yeah, absolutely.

551

00:43:29,737 --> 00:43:38,865

And you know, now you think about someone like Hangman Page who's listening to this theme

before he goes out and you know, if you're be a bad guy, yeah, that's the theme to do it.

552

00:43:38,865 --> 00:43:40,646

That's the theme to do it.

553

00:43:40,787 --> 00:43:44,148

Well, Vinny, thank you so much for making the time to chat with me today.

554

00:43:44,148 --> 00:43:53,564

It's always awesome to not just talk to people in the wrestling bubble, but people that

have just such an amazing mind for music who are so involved in the composition side of

555

00:43:53,564 --> 00:43:54,354

things.

556

00:43:54,354 --> 00:43:59,218

And like I said, I hope this isn't the last time that you are in the wrestling bubble.

557

00:43:59,218 --> 00:44:05,803

And I hope that as you do more in the wrestling bubble, we get to have some more

conversations because the work you did for Hangman is awesome.

558

00:44:05,803 --> 00:44:09,576

And I'd love to keep diving in on all these different things that you're doing.

559

00:44:09,622 --> 00:44:11,044

Thanks John, thanks for having me.

560

00:44:11,044 --> 00:44:12,506

I hope so too, you know.

561

00:44:12,506 --> 00:44:13,708

I hope so, we'll see.

562

00:44:13,708 --> 00:44:20,416

But yeah, it's been great talking to you and yeah, if I do another one, let's come back

and rap about it again.