Ben Eller on Playing with Mastodon, Retro Entrance Music, Tool's Adam Jones on Penta Entrance Theme

Welcome to this episode of the Ropes and Riffs Podcast.

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This is Jon Kiernan, Wrestling Entrance Theme Song Composer.

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You may remember me from such interviews as AEW's Mercedes Martinez.

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The one and only Marty Friedman.

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the one and only entrance song king, Montese, Josiah Williams, Eric Young, and many more

of your favorite musicians and wrestlers.

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on today's episode, I'm gonna be interviewing Uncle Ben himself, Ben Eller.

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You may know Uncle Ben for his recent stint at his show with Mastodon.

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You may know him from his time on YouTube teaching all different levels of guitar, all

different shapes and sizes, and all different kinds of styles.

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Ben Eller is a good friend of mine, and I'm so excited that he was able to come on the

show here.

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So I hope you enjoy our conversation where we talk about 80s and 90s wrestling entrance

themes, who some of our favorite wrestlers are, talk all about guitar.

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So for you guitar and music nerds out there, this is an episode for you and so much more.

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If you like what you hear, think about subscribing to the show over here on YouTube,

Spotify, Apple, and if you really like the show, feel free to leave us a comment and a

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review.

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If you leave a comment and review about the show, we'll go ahead and read it on the show.

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anyone who drops a donation of $10 or more over on PayPal, R-O-P-E-S, the letter N,

R-I-F-F-S, that's Ropes and Riffs.

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You'll also get a shout out on the show.

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I've kept you waiting long enough, so enjoy this episode and a great conversation with the

one and only Uncle Ben, Ben Eller.

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Uncle Ben.

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How you doing today, Ben Eller?

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kids, it's your good buddy Uncle Ben.

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Thanks so much for having me on the show, dude.

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I feel like we've been trying to line this up for a long time.

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We've had schemes and plots working against us.

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The guitar Illuminati, the guitar Minotti infiltrated Knoxville last week and set up a

power surge from my studio that destroyed a bunch of stuff.

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They were trying to shut us down, but look at us now.

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Here we are.

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Who'd thought?

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Look at us.

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But I like how we talk about all that and then you're just like, yeah, you know, a week or

two ago, you know, sorry, I couldn't do it.

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I was just with mastodon.

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That's a thing.

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that old thing.

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I don't know if you saw that or not, but you know, just doing stuff.

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Had a gig, you know, I had a show.

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Dude, it was so cool.

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was looking up like, you know, obviously they're like, Ben's playing with Mastodon.

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It's like, my God.

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And I think the actual first time that I heard that you were doing it was through Metal

Socks.

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And it was like, look at this.

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And it's just like, wait, Ben Eller, of course it's that Ben Eller, but you're always just

like, is it that Ben Eller?

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And then it shows up.

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It's you and you're just ripping on stage with the man.

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It's so, it was so cool to see.

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So congrats to that.

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Thank you very much.

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I appreciate that.

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And it was really a dream gig and a, ultimate honor.

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Cause I've been obsessed with that band for so long.

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So it was pretty surreal experience.

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And dude, I'll tell you this.

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was so fun being there, like on the scene, watching stuff unfold, right?

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Because basically the announcement of Brent's departure happened like after we touched

wheels in the Dominican Republic, like right as the plane landed, I opened up my phone and

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it's like, there's the news, you know,

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And I had all my friends and stuff text me.

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like, dude, did you see that prints out of the band?

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Did you see Brent left the band?

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Holy shit.

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Who do you think they're going to get to replace him?

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Who's it going to be?

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Who's it going to be?

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And I'm like, Whoa, that's crazy.

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You know?

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And then it was like the, I think it was like the next day.

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Cause we played the last day of the fest.

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The next day people were sending me all the speculation.

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And then like the next day after that, I guess somebody on the beach spotted me at sound

check.

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Cause the stage was like right on the beach.

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And so we were doing sound check early in the morning and like a couple of people lined up

on the beach, you know, and we're taking photos and stuff and it kind of got leaked.

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It's like possible Ben Eller sighting at tool in the sand.

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It was just really cool watching the breadcrumbs get dropped and then it's like, boom,

there it is.

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It sounds like such things that happen in wrestling where it's like, this person signed

and then the dirt sheets have it for a while and they're like, they're backstage at raw or

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AEW.

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they didn't show up today.

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they were backstage, but nothing happened.

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And then all of sudden they show up and you're like, what happened?

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This is crazy.

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I'm telling you man, like the sleuth work of the internet is truly incredible.

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Those are some Carmen San Diego kids out there for sure.

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And I liked too how you had to kind of play it coy.

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my god, this happened and especially for you too with all the videos you've done.

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You've done a lot on Mastodon too through the years about like, playing this riff and

playing this riff.

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you you look through the internet, you search Mastodon guitar and things like that.

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Obviously everyone in Mastodon over the years has just been a phenomenal player,

phenomenal music.

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If you're, you know, if you're listening to this podcast, you're probably a fan of

Mastodon already.

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If you're not, please go check out any record in their catalog and you're going to get.

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just some amazing music.

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But for you, you have a lot of these chops for the Macedon stuff already kind of even

going into the gig.

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But the video that you did highlighting the experience, you were like, man, I only had a

couple of days to do it.

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And it was literally listen to it, play through it, wait till I mess up, play through it

again, get to that same spot, and then kind of dive through.

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It was cool to hear about like the process of you getting into the Macedon gig too.

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yeah, that's the behind the scenes stuff that that nobody knows, you know, like I saw a

lot of people being like, ah, you know, Ben loves mass on he probably knew all these songs

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already.

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I really did not like out of that set list, which is a 17 song set, but I learned 20

something songs and we narrowed it down from there.

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I mean, I probably knew, you know, by heart, maybe four of them and the rest, was just

like, frantically learn this stuff as fast as you can, as accurate as you can.

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And it was a real challenge, man.

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Thankfully, I had earlier that year done the Shiprock gig, right?

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Me and Andy Wood and our drummer, Andy Campbell, we do these crazy rock cruise gigs and

all that where we're sort of the core of the house band of the main event, which is called

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the Stowaways, which is kind of this all star jam band kind of thing where, you know, we

choose different members of different bands that are on the cruise and we all do like a

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one time only cover song together.

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And then the next song is a different line up and the next song is a different line up.

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It's a ton of fun.

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It's one of the most cool things I get to do every year.

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Uh, but it involves learning, you know, 50, 60 songs, which I had just done on guitar and

bass to make sure it was all covered in case somebody had to cancel or whatever.

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So I had just been, you know, doing this marathon cram session anyway.

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So I think my brain was already kind of in that mode of, you know, uh, transcribing,

learning, memorizing, cause you know how it is, man, you're a player too.

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It's like,

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If you don't use those muscles, they atrophy, you know, I don't know if you've gone like a

long time between gigs and learning material and memorizing it, but man, if you've not

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done it, like I remember coming out of COVID, right?

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When we had no gigs, some of those first gigs I had coming back, dude, it took a while to

dust it off, you know, to get those, those memorization chops back and those transcription

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chops back.

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So thankfully I'd kind of already been in that sort of, you know,

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cram for material mode because of shiprock.

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So then when that fell in my lap, it's like OK, I'm ready.

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Now here's a question for you too, because obviously you've learned lots of mass that are

over the years.

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There were songs that you didn't know.

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You know, when it comes to the songs that you did know, you know, I, I know a lot of bands

that when you do sessions for them, when I've done sessions for them, it's like, okay,

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cool.

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Well, here's how it's really played as opposed to the way that you kind of heard it.

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The thing that's always been great about you is how so guitar centric you are, like watch

any of your videos here, any of the ways that you talk, you're really as dialed in, I

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think as possible to.

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you.

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everything from what string you're using and even if you're just like there's a fingering

that you wouldn't usually think to use because you could just do it this way we're

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probably he probably did it this way or she did it this way because that's the way that

you hear it on the record for you when you go into Mastodon and you're playing things the

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way that you learn them is there a conversation with them like hey this is like really

close but here's that extra like 1 % to make it as accurate as possible or were you pretty

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much like on you were so you you had that conversation too

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yeah, yeah, absolutely.

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Because I want to make sure I'm doing this stuff as accurately as possible.

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Cause that's what the fans are there to see, you know?

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And especially, especially for that time period with the band, you know, coming out of

this relationship they had with Brent Hines, who is a legend, one of my favorite players,

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one of the most important players in metal of the past 20 something years, right?

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You know, that's a big leap of faith for the fans to be like, how's the band going to

carry on with somebody else, whoever it may be.

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So I kind of felt a responsibility myself to be like,

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Don't worry, whoever steps up is still gonna play this stuff accurately.

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The songs are gonna sound the way that you're familiar with.

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Well, a little different, obviously.

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I'm not Brent, nobody is.

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So it was important for me to put the faith in the fans, to restore faith in the fans, and

also to pay respect to the music.

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Because to me, this is music I've been a fan of for 20-something years now.

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And so for me, it was very important to honor the material.

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And you're talking about so many records too.

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Like Mastodon's a band that record to record, you can tell it's Mastodon, but you can hear

a definite difference between like March of the Fire Ants, Colony of Birchmen and

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everything in between and after, you know?

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So it's one of those things where it's like, you know, there are some bands where...

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You're like, all right, cool.

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This is this.

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get this.

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This guitarist always does this.

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And this is kind of the style that they do.

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Like for me, I'll listen to an August Burns Red record.

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I listened to all of them.

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I love August Burns Red, but you listen to August Burns Red and you're like, Hey, if you

liked Constellations or you liked all of these other ones, you're probably going to feel

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pretty similar on all of them.

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That's not a dig.

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That's just, Hey, some bands have that other bands go, Hey, we want to have different

things that we do on different records.

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So for you, you're kind of not even learning like.

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one band.

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You're learning different years of the band and almost it feels like you're learning

different styles altogether, I'm sure.

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No, you're exactly right.

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And that's a great way to look at it.

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It's like it really is like learning different eras, you know, of the same band.

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And the cool thing with that group too is, know, everybody, everybody writes in that

group.

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So the songs that Brent wrote feel different under your hands than the songs that Bill

wrote.

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And people don't even know in that band how much stuff Braun, the drummer, writes.

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He writes a lot of stuff in his riffs feel nothing like Brent's riffs or Bill's riffs or

Troy's riffs.

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So it is really interesting, it's really fun, but that's part of why I like the challenge

so much, because it isn't that I already know exactly how this is gonna lay out on the

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neck, I know how this is gonna go, it's always something different that keeps you at

attention.

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That's something I've always really enjoyed about that band, yeah.

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And yeah, you're right, man, all those little things like making sure you're playing stuff

on the right string set, is this an open string or a fretted note, all that stuff really

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matters to me, so I really like digging into the minutia there.

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And I love that too.

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I love how much of a focus you have to it.

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you know, knowing you for as long as we've been friends here and as long as we've been,

yeah, it's, it's crazy.

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I can't even put a finger on it, but I know it was like, I think NAMM 15 that we had gone

to.

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And it was like right before then.

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Yeah.

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It's super cool.

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And something like that.

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Isn't it crazy?

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Our hair and our faces are still pretty good.

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I'd say.

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I look at those locks, dude.

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We still got it.

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We still got it.

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love it.

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And through that time, obviously, there's been the constant conversations of guitar,

constant conversations of all different styles.

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You basically go, hey, man, check out Brad Paisley and me being like, this is a nightmare

to play.

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I love this.

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This is crazy.

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All the way into, you know, talking about some of the wrestling stuff too, as we are ropes

and ropes, we got to talk about wrestling.

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you know, for me, the times that I had really heard you talk about wrestling were on

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you know, dead and lovely with you and Hollywood Steve talking all the horror stuff on the

podcast that you were doing.

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And it was like, you guys would always drop the references to the older stuff, which you

got to talk about.

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And I always loved the fact of like, you know, someone like me who's still so like about

what products are out now and being like, my God, cool.

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This and that like, Hey guys, remember tool had, or Penta had tools, Adam Jones do the

recent theme, which is super cool.

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But yeah, and we got to dive into that a little bit too, cause that's

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that's some crazy stuff, but just being able to like hear you guys talking all the way

about like wrestling from the eighties.

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And it sounds like from when you were younger, you were really into wrestling much earlier

in your life too.

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yeah, definitely.

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Yeah.

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And you're right, man.

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Me and old Hollywood Steve back in the dead lovely days would wax poetic about old school

wrestling stuff all the time because you know, we both grew up here in the South and East

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Tennessee and you really can't get away from wrestling.

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Now, now back then, you know, in the late eighties, early nineties, it was still a little

bit more niche.

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00:12:44,068 --> 00:12:50,052

You know, once we hit kind of the attitude era and everything really blew up, it became a

lot more common, but

205

00:12:50,052 --> 00:12:55,972

Back in the day, it was still a little bit more niche, but being in the South, just you

couldn't get away from it.

206

00:12:55,972 --> 00:13:01,772

know, Smokey Mountain Wrestling had a huge presence here, so you'd see all the Smokey

Mountain Flyers everywhere.

207

00:13:01,772 --> 00:13:02,632

And yeah, I don't know.

208

00:13:02,632 --> 00:13:05,467

It's just it's just good old boys stuff, you know.

209

00:13:05,905 --> 00:13:06,985

Oh yeah, yeah.

210

00:13:06,985 --> 00:13:13,225

Southern, I don't think people realize how much resonance wrestling has in the South, you

know?

211

00:13:13,225 --> 00:13:18,625

And it's one of those things where you have so many of like the biggest talents that would

do all the territories down there.

212

00:13:18,625 --> 00:13:29,345

And you know, you're talking about, I mean, in New York, obviously you had, you know, WWF

and WWWF and things like that, but like the South, think is always really where wrestling

213

00:13:29,345 --> 00:13:30,665

will have that stronghold.

214

00:13:30,665 --> 00:13:32,305

That's still real to me, that whole thing.

215

00:13:32,305 --> 00:13:33,529

It's like, you know,

216

00:13:33,529 --> 00:13:36,011

A lot of the best guys came from down there too.

217

00:13:36,011 --> 00:13:38,984

know, Dusty down in Georgia and all that kind of stuff.

218

00:13:38,984 --> 00:13:46,962

It's just, it's so interesting to think about when you're in the States, because you think

about wrestling overseas and things like that, but you really think about the stronghold

219

00:13:46,962 --> 00:13:49,014

of wrestling being such a Southern thing.

220

00:13:49,014 --> 00:13:50,045

You're a hundred percent right.

221

00:13:50,045 --> 00:13:50,604

Yeah.

222

00:13:50,604 --> 00:13:51,305

Yeah, man.

223

00:13:51,305 --> 00:13:52,767

No, it's absolutely everywhere.

224

00:13:52,767 --> 00:13:53,739

Those are our stories, man.

225

00:13:53,739 --> 00:13:56,306

Those are our male redneck soap operas.

226

00:13:56,306 --> 00:13:58,594

What's your, what's your early wrestling story?

227

00:13:58,594 --> 00:14:00,967

Like what had gotten you into it when you were younger?

228

00:14:00,967 --> 00:14:04,490

Dude, I don't even know the first time that I started getting into it.

229

00:14:04,490 --> 00:14:06,872

Honestly, that's actually something I hadn't thought about.

230

00:14:06,872 --> 00:14:08,343

Like what was the first time you watched wrestling?

231

00:14:08,343 --> 00:14:14,619

It was one of those things that I just always had, you know, it's kind like, I don't

really remember the first time I heard Van Halen.

232

00:14:14,619 --> 00:14:16,650

like, I've always had Van Halen in my life.

233

00:14:16,900 --> 00:14:18,792

and wrestling is the same way, man.

234

00:14:19,152 --> 00:14:23,176

Dang, that's a good question because I'm trying to think about it this way, man.

235

00:14:23,176 --> 00:14:27,920

So I grew up funny enough on a street called Harmony Circle.

236

00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:28,874

Pretty cool.

237

00:14:28,874 --> 00:14:29,580

There you go.

238

00:14:29,580 --> 00:14:33,442

And down the street was my best buddy and lifelong friend, Josh.

239

00:14:33,442 --> 00:14:39,947

He lived right down the street from me and him and his brother, who's his older brother,

Brian, we're always really into wrestling.

240

00:14:39,947 --> 00:14:45,250

So maybe we got into it hanging around them because my parents didn't watch wrestling.

241

00:14:45,250 --> 00:14:47,311

So maybe they got us into it.

242

00:14:47,311 --> 00:14:49,913

Maybe watching it over at their place or something, you know?

243

00:14:50,093 --> 00:14:55,596

But again, I don't even remember when that was, so it would have been early, early, early

on.

244

00:14:55,657 --> 00:14:57,908

And man, we just used to love watching that stuff.

245

00:14:57,908 --> 00:14:59,519

And I don't know to me.

246

00:14:59,878 --> 00:15:02,829

You know, it was like watching real life superheroes.

247

00:15:02,889 --> 00:15:04,490

That was the appeal to me.

248

00:15:04,490 --> 00:15:07,411

You know, I was always into comic books and everything growing up.

249

00:15:07,411 --> 00:15:16,294

And so to see these guys, these big, you know, hulking dudes with these crazy physiques

and costumes and they had their super moves and they had this like, you know, mythology.

250

00:15:16,294 --> 00:15:24,588

Like when you see characters like the Undertaker when you're a kid and you're like, OK, I

know that this is pretend and he's acting, but like this is the closest thing to seeing a

251

00:15:24,588 --> 00:15:26,668

real superhero I've ever seen.

252

00:15:26,668 --> 00:15:28,779

Like this guy is beyond huge.

253

00:15:29,153 --> 00:15:30,790

think that's what got me into it early on.

254

00:15:30,790 --> 00:15:33,016

Yeah, the pageantry.

255

00:15:34,152 --> 00:15:34,622

100%, yeah.

256

00:15:34,622 --> 00:15:39,395

And you know, I ask that question sometimes to people, like, was your first memory of

wrestling?

257

00:15:39,395 --> 00:15:45,839

like, I'll always go back to Bret and Sean, WrestleMania 12, but I don't even think that

was my first time.

258

00:15:45,839 --> 00:15:48,642

But like, that's the one that I always say, really got me into wrestling.

259

00:15:48,642 --> 00:15:55,676

everyone's like, if you, if for people listening, you guys know the match, a 60 minute

Iron Man match, and everyone's like, why are gonna put these two in there for 60 minutes?

260

00:15:55,676 --> 00:15:57,143

And then it goes to a draw.

261

00:15:57,143 --> 00:15:59,034

And then all of a sudden it's like, all right, we're back.

262

00:15:59,034 --> 00:16:02,227

And then Sean goes, surprise, fuck face and hits you with a super kick.

263

00:16:02,227 --> 00:16:03,908

And it's like, that's it.

264

00:16:03,908 --> 00:16:04,939

All of a sudden, Sean's there.

265

00:16:04,939 --> 00:16:06,183

I'm always a Sean guy.

266

00:16:06,183 --> 00:16:10,733

And it's just like, yeah, he's, he's so good.

267

00:16:10,733 --> 00:16:17,949

And you know, there's like, I think that was my first match was Sean, Brett, WrestleMania

12, but same thing.

268

00:16:17,949 --> 00:16:19,910

Like you feel like it's been in your life forever.

269

00:16:19,910 --> 00:16:21,882

I know my parents were huge into it.

270

00:16:21,882 --> 00:16:23,885

And then over the years, like,

271

00:16:23,885 --> 00:16:31,802

You know, my mom was really big into it too with like SmackDown when it came on when we

lived in Queens and we would just like eat Ben and Jerry's Bovinity Divinity ice cream,

272

00:16:31,802 --> 00:16:33,063

watching it on UPN.

273

00:16:33,063 --> 00:16:36,565

That's a throwback ladies and gentlemen, UPN for those in the North.

274

00:16:36,565 --> 00:16:43,550

like, that's like, I remember those things and she's watching like the Rock gets super

kicked by Shawn Michaels as a referee in the short shorts.

275

00:16:43,550 --> 00:16:45,052

And I'm like, my God.

276

00:16:45,052 --> 00:16:51,531

And my mom was somebody who was very much like, you know, I think she helped me spend my

disbelief for a lot longer.

277

00:16:51,531 --> 00:16:51,920

Yeah.

278

00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:54,632

was like, my God, if someone got kicked like that, yeah, they'd be out.

279

00:16:54,632 --> 00:16:56,342

And I'm like, yeah.

280

00:16:57,343 --> 00:16:58,244

Yeah.

281

00:16:58,244 --> 00:17:02,086

And then there was always like that little glimmer of like, you know, the undertaker.

282

00:17:02,086 --> 00:17:02,656

Yeah.

283

00:17:02,656 --> 00:17:04,407

I thought he was dead for awhile.

284

00:17:04,407 --> 00:17:05,918

I'm like, yeah, he was.

285

00:17:05,918 --> 00:17:07,038

totally.

286

00:17:07,139 --> 00:17:15,384

man, that's funny you mentioned Shawn Michaels too, because like that was always the the

raging question back in the day is like, okay, Brett or Shawn, which of which side are you

287

00:17:15,384 --> 00:17:15,604

on?

288

00:17:15,604 --> 00:17:24,110

And I remember as a kid, I always liked to face I like Brett Hart, I like to go out there

and give it is really, you know, crappy sunglasses to the kids.

289

00:17:24,110 --> 00:17:29,833

Remember, he gives the kids that it's like a piece of foil shaped into sunglasses, like

here you go, kid.

290

00:17:29,954 --> 00:17:33,288

But I always thought that he was like the good guy, you know, and Shawn was like,

291

00:17:33,288 --> 00:17:34,009

bad guy.

292

00:17:34,009 --> 00:17:41,483

nowadays, I'm just like, no, Sean, all the way to what a performer so much charisma, so

much crowd control and so much consistency.

293

00:17:41,483 --> 00:17:48,397

Like, a friend of mine showed me a compilation of all of his, like, you know, elbow drops

over the years.

294

00:17:48,437 --> 00:17:51,418

It was just a compilation of elbow drop, elbow drop, elbow drop.

295

00:17:51,418 --> 00:17:52,399

They're identical.

296

00:17:52,399 --> 00:17:58,522

It's like his muscle memory is spot on, they all look exactly the same.

297

00:17:58,682 --> 00:18:00,747

Because he so dialed in as a performer.

298

00:18:00,747 --> 00:18:02,167

And dude, actually, okay.

299

00:18:02,167 --> 00:18:03,778

Here's one of my first wrestling members.

300

00:18:03,778 --> 00:18:06,989

can't say the first, but one of my first, you'll think this is hilarious.

301

00:18:06,989 --> 00:18:16,141

So remember of course, Sean Michael's theme song, absolutely part of the charisma singing

your own theme song about how you're a sexy boy.

302

00:18:16,141 --> 00:18:17,472

Awesome.

303

00:18:17,472 --> 00:18:18,122

Holy cow.

304

00:18:18,122 --> 00:18:19,673

can't get any cooler than that.

305

00:18:19,673 --> 00:18:20,513

Right.

306

00:18:20,513 --> 00:18:27,596

But whenever the song starts and Sean's walking out, there's, there's a lady and she goes,

Sean.

307

00:18:28,591 --> 00:18:30,064

you know, she's making sexy noises.

308

00:18:30,064 --> 00:18:31,346

That was my sexy noise, by the way.

309

00:18:31,346 --> 00:18:39,575

But dude, as like, you know, like a five year old kid, I didn't understand that that was

like sexy woman noises.

310

00:18:39,575 --> 00:18:44,931

I thought that was the sound of him like murdering a woman, because he's a bad guy.

311

00:18:44,931 --> 00:18:48,386

Imagine that changes the whole context of everything Shawn Michaels.

312

00:18:48,386 --> 00:18:50,718

I'm gonna murder somebody then I'm gonna walk to the ring.

313

00:18:50,909 --> 00:18:52,210

He's a real lady killer.

314

00:18:52,210 --> 00:18:52,772

Really.

315

00:18:52,772 --> 00:18:54,940

It just confused me so much as a kid.

316

00:18:54,940 --> 00:18:57,142

was like, wow, this guy's really a bad guy.

317

00:18:57,142 --> 00:19:01,376

His theme song starts off with him murdering a woman then singing about how hot he is.

318

00:19:01,376 --> 00:19:03,007

This guy's messed up.

319

00:19:03,427 --> 00:19:05,139

You want to know something crazy though.

320

00:19:05,139 --> 00:19:10,023

Actually, this is something I thought for years to actually up until last year.

321

00:19:10,023 --> 00:19:11,174

I forget where it was.

322

00:19:11,174 --> 00:19:16,168

I forget where I heard it, which is a great way to qualify anything I'm about to say,

ladies and gentlemen.

323

00:19:16,168 --> 00:19:20,932

But I believe that the vocals at the beginning, everyone thought was Sherry, right?

324

00:19:20,932 --> 00:19:24,614

Sherry Martel, but it's actually Jimmy Hart.

325

00:19:25,916 --> 00:19:27,036

Yeah.

326

00:19:27,377 --> 00:19:28,518

How crazy is that?

327

00:19:28,518 --> 00:19:30,820

uh

328

00:19:30,820 --> 00:19:32,754

that adds an extra layer of confusion.

329

00:19:32,754 --> 00:19:36,622

Now I'm just as confused now as a 40 year old dude than was when I was five.

330

00:19:36,622 --> 00:19:37,559

uh

331

00:19:37,559 --> 00:19:47,374

when I heard that, and it was on one of these legit sources, like someone who knew or

whatever in the industry, and I was just like, man, this is like some Berenstein Bears

332

00:19:47,374 --> 00:19:48,835

kind of stuff going back and forth.

333

00:19:48,835 --> 00:19:50,566

Like, no, no, no, this is Mandela effect.

334

00:19:50,566 --> 00:19:52,638

This is like, it totally was her.

335

00:19:52,638 --> 00:19:53,778

It has to be.

336

00:19:53,778 --> 00:19:57,360

Otherwise, 36 years of my life means nothing.

337

00:19:57,360 --> 00:20:03,402

Or, I don't know, someone squashed a bug in the 80s and then went back in time and never

squashed that bug and now Jimmy Hart did it.

338

00:20:03,402 --> 00:20:04,105

I don't know.

339

00:20:04,105 --> 00:20:20,773

oh

340

00:20:20,955 --> 00:20:21,316

yeah.

341

00:20:21,316 --> 00:20:29,572

And I have this conversation with people who do the entrance themes nowadays too, cause

they're like, man, what do you think about like the themes now, you know, and like what

342

00:20:29,572 --> 00:20:32,224

you do and what like Mikey from AEW does and all this.

343

00:20:32,224 --> 00:20:36,908

And I'm always like, man, it takes a lot to write a really memorable theme.

344

00:20:36,908 --> 00:20:39,751

But I think the thing that a lot of people don't.

345

00:20:39,751 --> 00:20:40,121

Wreck it.

346

00:20:40,121 --> 00:20:41,635

Well, let me talk about Bratz first.

347

00:20:41,635 --> 00:20:46,939

The thing that's cool with Bratz is now, you know, Natalia uses a version of it, his,

related in the industry and whatnot.

348

00:20:46,939 --> 00:20:48,272

And it's just like.

349

00:20:48,272 --> 00:20:54,392

It's cool to see that, I go, man, back in the day, you didn't have lots of companies.

350

00:20:54,392 --> 00:20:57,072

You didn't have a lot of the same dynamics.

351

00:20:57,072 --> 00:21:00,652

So you got the opportunity for those themes to really stick in your head.

352

00:21:00,652 --> 00:21:03,012

And I'm like, I don't think you're going to get back there again.

353

00:21:03,012 --> 00:21:14,632

Like I think that you can make music, obviously that's really unique for each person, but

like, like, of like you said, Brett Hart's theme, it's kind of da, da, da, da, da, da, da,

354

00:21:14,632 --> 00:21:15,726

da, da, da, da,

355

00:21:15,726 --> 00:21:16,226

Yeah.

356

00:21:16,226 --> 00:21:19,349

And then it's just like, then some like kind of cool solo that happened.

357

00:21:19,349 --> 00:21:20,039

That's cool.

358

00:21:20,039 --> 00:21:28,515

But like, I always think about it and I asked Jim Johnson this on LinkedIn, cause we had a

conversation at Jim Johnson, composer for WWE or WWF, right?

359

00:21:28,515 --> 00:21:29,486

Who wrote that?

360

00:21:29,486 --> 00:21:35,109

And he's like, man, when you write themes, you got to think about like who the talent is

and things like think about the undertaker.

361

00:21:35,109 --> 00:21:36,589

go, but yeah, no disrespect.

362

00:21:36,589 --> 00:21:38,410

The undertaker is a dead guy, right?

363

00:21:38,410 --> 00:21:39,671

You could write a funeral dirge.

364

00:21:39,671 --> 00:21:40,802

Totally cool.

365

00:21:40,802 --> 00:21:43,853

nowadays, you know, you may write something heavy too, but I go,

366

00:21:44,355 --> 00:21:45,446

What about Brett?

367

00:21:45,446 --> 00:21:48,128

How do you like write Canadian?

368

00:21:48,128 --> 00:21:49,109

You know what I mean?

369

00:21:49,109 --> 00:21:51,111

How do you write for a technical person?

370

00:21:51,111 --> 00:21:55,534

And for that, he was always like, you got to think of like the story of the person.

371

00:21:55,534 --> 00:21:58,857

You got to think about like, everybody's got a unique story.

372

00:21:58,857 --> 00:22:00,929

And I always agree with that.

373

00:22:00,929 --> 00:22:02,159

They do.

374

00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:07,384

But it's just like, I don't know how you get inside the mind of like a Brett Hart and come

up with something like that.

375

00:22:07,384 --> 00:22:08,901

That theme is always iconic.

376

00:22:08,901 --> 00:22:20,432

Dude, I was going to ask you about this because you've done a lot of this kind of work and

I've always thought that it sounded so fun because I don't know about you, man, like I get

377

00:22:20,432 --> 00:22:23,586

the total fear of a blank page, right?

378

00:22:23,586 --> 00:22:29,341

When I don't have an assignment and it's like, I don't know, do something, be creative,

write something, anything.

379

00:22:29,341 --> 00:22:30,833

It's a blank page.

380

00:22:30,833 --> 00:22:33,619

Like I kind of just spiral at that point.

381

00:22:33,619 --> 00:22:43,279

But when the assignment gets tighter and tighter, like for doing sessions that have done

over the years or whatever, where it's like, okay, I need a 30 second long guitar solo in

382

00:22:43,279 --> 00:22:44,859

this key at this tempo.

383

00:22:44,859 --> 00:22:47,259

My brain starts firing off ideas right away.

384

00:22:47,259 --> 00:22:50,339

The limitation is what makes it interesting to me.

385

00:22:50,339 --> 00:22:55,679

Um, and I imagine when you're writing a theme for wrestlers you've done, it's gotta be

really, I don't know.

386

00:22:55,679 --> 00:23:00,019

I would see my own brain getting very excited about that being like, okay, needs to this

long.

387

00:23:00,019 --> 00:23:01,699

It needs to convey this energy.

388

00:23:01,699 --> 00:23:02,706

It's for this character.

389

00:23:02,706 --> 00:23:05,206

It looks like this, the story is this.

390

00:23:05,206 --> 00:23:07,378

I would get really excited doing that.

391

00:23:07,378 --> 00:23:09,282

What is that process like for you?

392

00:23:09,369 --> 00:23:12,601

Yeah, it's exactly like you said, you know, it's, one of those things.

393

00:23:12,601 --> 00:23:17,604

And as, as I think we're both in kind of that guitar space too, you think about all the

phenomenal players.

394

00:23:17,604 --> 00:23:18,904

It's like, well, okay.

395

00:23:18,904 --> 00:23:22,917

You think about like a Jack Gardner, you think about all these guys and you go, okay,

great.

396

00:23:22,917 --> 00:23:25,058

That record you played every single note.

397

00:23:25,058 --> 00:23:25,918

What's next?

398

00:23:25,918 --> 00:23:33,603

You know, and it's just like, it's this blank canvas of you can play all the things you

can do all the things you've literally hit every chord tone.

399

00:23:33,603 --> 00:23:35,644

You've literally hit every non-chord tone.

400

00:23:35,644 --> 00:23:38,115

You did every passing that you could have done.

401

00:23:38,115 --> 00:23:39,826

what's the next record gonna sound like?

402

00:23:39,826 --> 00:23:40,936

It becomes daunting.

403

00:23:40,936 --> 00:23:50,229

When you do themes for wrestlers, I feel like it's been, honestly, like you said, kind

some of the most freeing to do, because you talk to a talent and you're like, what's your

404

00:23:50,229 --> 00:23:51,089

story?

405

00:23:51,089 --> 00:23:55,751

What do you want your theme to tell the people about you before we hit the ring?

406

00:23:55,751 --> 00:23:57,933

And tell me a bit about you.

407

00:23:57,933 --> 00:24:02,294

And it becomes this thing where, and I forget, you basically said it, right?

408

00:24:02,294 --> 00:24:05,303

With limitations comes freedom, because if you can do everything,

409

00:24:05,303 --> 00:24:07,223

then you have this paralysis.

410

00:24:07,223 --> 00:24:12,183

you know, okay, you're going to be doing this kind of thing, then it helps tighten that up

a little bit.

411

00:24:12,183 --> 00:24:15,003

And it helps you get even more creative outside of that, right?

412

00:24:15,003 --> 00:24:22,043

If you're working on a theme for a talent who's, let's say, more of a horror gimmick or

more of like a scary theme, okay, cool.

413

00:24:22,043 --> 00:24:24,643

You could choose this scale to work in.

414

00:24:24,923 --> 00:24:28,763

cool, maybe you can choose this kind of more exotic scale to write in instead.

415

00:24:28,763 --> 00:24:31,203

And it's like, wow, that makes them a little bit more unique.

416

00:24:31,203 --> 00:24:32,423

Why did you choose that?

417

00:24:32,423 --> 00:24:33,077

Because...

418

00:24:33,077 --> 00:24:35,629

This person sounds very much from the underworld.

419

00:24:35,629 --> 00:24:36,991

This person is a cult leader.

420

00:24:36,991 --> 00:24:48,212

This person, you know, it's, gives you those kind of like extra tools and it, makes it

like, you get to feel like each piece that you write does have its own identity.

421

00:24:48,212 --> 00:24:50,904

Cause every wrestler then has their own identity too.

422

00:24:50,904 --> 00:24:53,657

So yeah, I think you're a hundred percent spot on with that.

423

00:24:53,657 --> 00:24:54,136

Yeah.

424

00:24:54,136 --> 00:24:56,868

The constraint it's like within the constraint lies the freedom.

425

00:24:56,868 --> 00:25:02,301

It's really interesting because if you just had somebody come to you and they're like

write me a theme, you'd be like.

426

00:25:02,661 --> 00:25:04,582

OK, what the anything?

427

00:25:04,582 --> 00:25:05,802

Yeah, anything.

428

00:25:06,883 --> 00:25:12,567

I would probably never get anything done if that was the case, but you're right if it was

like hey, I'm a supernatural luchador.

429

00:25:12,567 --> 00:25:15,249

And I'm a high flyer, high impact wrestler or whatever.

430

00:25:15,249 --> 00:25:17,370

I would start getting ideas right away.

431

00:25:17,370 --> 00:25:19,511

You know, I always find that something to.

432

00:25:19,651 --> 00:25:21,822

that showed my students and stuff over the years too.

433

00:25:21,822 --> 00:25:25,293

know, people that are having trouble getting creative, getting songs finished.

434

00:25:25,293 --> 00:25:29,594

It's usually because they're giving themselves the biggest blank page in the world.

435

00:25:29,955 --> 00:25:37,878

But when you give yourself that assignment of like, has to be this long, it has to convey

this emotion, it has to be in this key, it has to be, you know what I mean?

436

00:25:37,878 --> 00:25:42,069

The more limitations you give, usually the more ideas you'll actually get.

437

00:25:42,539 --> 00:25:49,454

Yeah, and I think a lot of people think in that way too, like the more they write music

and the more, you know, when you're a beginner in that stage, you're not thinking like

438

00:25:49,454 --> 00:25:49,574

that.

439

00:25:49,574 --> 00:25:58,460

You're just like, and I always use this terminology, you know, back in the day you had Led

Zeppelin coming out with a small orchestra and there was smoke and there was Jimmy Page

440

00:25:58,460 --> 00:26:07,607

coming out with all the letters and know, crazy shapes on his pants and Robert Plant came

out with his shirt open and all of sudden he's singing into the microphone or he just

441

00:26:07,607 --> 00:26:11,329

sounds like he's singing to a hall of people and it's just like.

442

00:26:11,403 --> 00:26:13,454

yeah, how do they come up with all this stuff?

443

00:26:13,454 --> 00:26:23,306

And I'm like, I love Zeppelin, I do, but at the same time, you could call it reverb on the

voice, you could call it, know, he's using these scales, he's doing this, and it's not

444

00:26:23,306 --> 00:26:30,208

absolutely to make any of that sound bad, it's just, you know, these are the tools that

they're using, and it's okay to know that.

445

00:26:30,208 --> 00:26:36,180

So then when you turn around and you have a student that's like, I can't do this, you're

like, all right, let's focus up a little bit.

446

00:26:36,180 --> 00:26:39,224

I just had the rock band we do at our school did that, we were like, all right.

447

00:26:39,224 --> 00:26:42,126

We've learned all these songs, let's write a piece of music.

448

00:26:42,346 --> 00:26:44,536

And I did start it off a little bit open.

449

00:26:44,536 --> 00:26:45,268

I'm like, all right, cool.

450

00:26:45,268 --> 00:26:46,709

Does anyone have anything?

451

00:26:46,709 --> 00:26:48,307

And they all kind of look at each other like, what are we doing?

452

00:26:48,307 --> 00:26:49,311

I'm like, all right, cool, cool.

453

00:26:49,311 --> 00:26:50,152

What are we feeling now?

454

00:26:50,152 --> 00:26:51,032

What's our vibe?

455

00:26:51,032 --> 00:26:52,939

And they're like, a little bit more calm and this.

456

00:26:52,939 --> 00:26:53,855

I'm like, all right, cool.

457

00:26:53,855 --> 00:26:56,537

What are some songs that you think of that are kind of calm?

458

00:26:56,537 --> 00:26:57,147

Okay, this.

459

00:26:57,147 --> 00:27:02,741

And we listened to like three or four and I'm like, the two that you really liked the most

were in this time signature.

460

00:27:02,741 --> 00:27:04,082

Okay, cool, let's do that.

461

00:27:04,082 --> 00:27:07,564

And so think of that and let's choose a key, right?

462

00:27:11,021 --> 00:27:11,592

Right.

463

00:27:11,592 --> 00:27:12,673

this super cool song.

464

00:27:12,673 --> 00:27:17,913

And I'm like, man, like the band is literally just like, I feel this is something you

could listen to on the radio.

465

00:27:17,913 --> 00:27:18,635

I'm like, that's it.

466

00:27:18,635 --> 00:27:19,685

Like that, yeah.

467

00:27:19,685 --> 00:27:20,645

And then guess what?

468

00:27:20,645 --> 00:27:25,977

You can write another song that sounds a lot more lively and is a little bit more like,

you know, fast.

469

00:27:25,977 --> 00:27:30,919

Like you can do those things, but now you have this way to define more of what you're

looking to do.

470

00:27:30,919 --> 00:27:31,719

Yeah.

471

00:27:31,826 --> 00:27:33,207

man, absolutely so.

472

00:27:33,207 --> 00:27:34,968

That's gotta be a real thrill seeing that.

473

00:27:34,968 --> 00:27:37,720

I've always loved doing that with younger students and stuff too.

474

00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:41,022

That thrill of seeing them be like, my God, I can write music.

475

00:27:41,322 --> 00:27:43,904

It's a thrill, whenever that clicks with people.

476

00:27:44,851 --> 00:27:45,171

Yeah.

477

00:27:45,171 --> 00:27:47,273

And you've worked with hundreds of students too.

478

00:27:47,273 --> 00:27:54,458

You have so many students that you've worked with and you know, for you, it's like, it's

not just compositions, but it's breaking through those guitar things.

479

00:27:54,458 --> 00:28:02,644

It's being able to like, and that's one thing that I think is often understated and

actually as an instructor, I've learned a lot from you too, watching the way that you

480

00:28:02,644 --> 00:28:03,845

teach and explain things.

481

00:28:03,845 --> 00:28:09,140

It's like, you dial in so much on the minutiae, right?

482

00:28:09,140 --> 00:28:12,354

But you focus so much on the things that people are doing, right?

483

00:28:12,354 --> 00:28:14,637

but you're like, hey, here's the thing you're not considering.

484

00:28:14,637 --> 00:28:25,324

You know, for those who don't know, Troy Grady and Ben Eller are the people that have

defined the pickslanting conversation over the last couple of years.

485

00:28:25,324 --> 00:28:33,930

And if you don't know what pickslanting is and your guitarist listening to this, check out

all of the videos that Troy Grady and Ben have done because it's like, it really makes

486

00:28:33,930 --> 00:28:35,702

just an unbelievable difference.

487

00:28:35,702 --> 00:28:40,807

If you don't know what it is, it's basically take your guitar playing from I'm Stuck to

488

00:28:40,807 --> 00:28:41,610

playing anything.

489

00:28:41,610 --> 00:28:42,738

It's unbelievable.

490

00:28:42,738 --> 00:28:43,698

It's crazy man.

491

00:28:43,698 --> 00:28:44,958

Yeah, the Troy stuff man.

492

00:28:44,958 --> 00:28:55,398

I always have to give credit to you know, I I didn't I didn't discover anything that Troy

didn't you know, I just take what Troy showed me and I try to phrase it in my own words

493

00:28:55,398 --> 00:29:02,282

and see if it clicks with people, know Troy really did change everything for the world of

technical guitar playing for sure.

494

00:29:02,641 --> 00:29:03,111

Yeah.

495

00:29:03,111 --> 00:29:05,902

And it's so cool to have like those little dissects there, right?

496

00:29:05,902 --> 00:29:08,173

Like just how quick you dive on a technique.

497

00:29:08,173 --> 00:29:20,689

And you know, when we think about the amount of people that you've played for, the amount

of work that you've done, and just in general, there's so much that has like Ben Eller

498

00:29:20,689 --> 00:29:21,869

attached to it, you know?

499

00:29:21,869 --> 00:29:26,781

And it's so funny too, because like, you know, we worked on one theme a while ago for

Bruce Rogers.

500

00:29:26,781 --> 00:29:29,563

I was like, man, let's go ahead and have Ben on here.

501

00:29:29,563 --> 00:29:30,309

And it's just like...

502

00:29:30,309 --> 00:29:30,949

2020?

503

00:29:30,949 --> 00:29:32,009

that during COVID time?

504

00:29:32,009 --> 00:29:33,029

I think it was.

505

00:29:33,029 --> 00:29:33,514

Yeah.

506

00:29:33,514 --> 00:29:35,216

two, at least two to three years ago.

507

00:29:35,216 --> 00:29:37,668

And it's still one of my favorite themes that I've done.

508

00:29:37,668 --> 00:29:45,976

Cause again, I like doing stuff that's in more of that metal vein is, you know, I like to

kind of say I'm more of a metal player, but like in guitar nowadays, you basically do

509

00:29:45,976 --> 00:29:46,977

whatever, right?

510

00:29:46,977 --> 00:29:53,184

But like, I remember I got that solo back from you and I'm like, this probably took him

like 10 minutes to do.

511

00:29:53,184 --> 00:29:54,165

It's so good.

512

00:29:54,165 --> 00:29:56,767

Like I'm always just like, you do the assignment.

513

00:29:56,770 --> 00:30:05,126

hit pretty fast on and it was like I know exactly what I want to do here You know, I love

when that happens, you know that those are always The best ones whether it be solos or

514

00:30:05,126 --> 00:30:11,291

entire songs or whatever I don't know about you man like the ones that I Toil away on for

like a year at a time.

515

00:30:11,291 --> 00:30:20,999

Those never end up being the keepers It's always the ones where the inspiration hits hard

and fast and you just feel like you're getting this like Satellite laser beam from space

516

00:30:20,999 --> 00:30:23,140

just sending you the information, you know

517

00:30:23,140 --> 00:30:26,922

Those are always the best ones, ones where you don't have time to overthink.

518

00:30:27,353 --> 00:30:30,384

Exactly, and they tell you that all the time, like don't overthink it.

519

00:30:30,384 --> 00:30:38,708

If it sounds good and it feels like that's what it should be, you can go back and change

things later, sure, but like usually your heart and your brain kind of know what's going

520

00:30:38,708 --> 00:30:39,068

on.

521

00:30:39,068 --> 00:30:47,161

You know, you can overthink things until you're like dead and buried, but like you

literally, a lot of these things, the more you play, the more you write, you get in there.

522

00:30:47,161 --> 00:30:55,285

And I feel like when it comes to even doing some of these like entrance themes, I feel

like a lot of them, when you hear these people have talked over time, whether it's CFOs

523

00:30:55,285 --> 00:30:55,825

from

524

00:30:55,825 --> 00:31:01,700

you know, like more modern NXT or even Jim Johnston for the stuff that we're talking about

from the eighties, the nineties, the two thousands.

525

00:31:02,021 --> 00:31:06,186

It, it sounds like he knew very much what he was trying to do.

526

00:31:06,186 --> 00:31:09,469

Like think about like, you know, the stone cold theme, like glass shatters.

527

00:31:09,469 --> 00:31:11,313

I feel like that was written in like 10 minutes.

528

00:31:11,313 --> 00:31:12,083

dude.

529

00:31:12,083 --> 00:31:21,358

I'm serious and and you know, it's funny you mentioned that because I was exactly going

the same place in my brain and it's cool to see how a lot of those ultra memorable themes

530

00:31:21,358 --> 00:31:26,773

aren't even necessarily based around music It's based around a sound the undertaker the

bell.

531

00:31:26,773 --> 00:31:37,099

That's not a song but you hear that bell and you're like, the undertaker the dead man's

here You know the glass shattering that's stung cold period, you know, so it's funny how a

532

00:31:37,099 --> 00:31:37,809

lot of this stuff is

533

00:31:37,809 --> 00:31:42,537

more like audio design and then the music is kind of secondary in a way.

534

00:31:42,537 --> 00:31:44,230

Yeah, it is.

535

00:31:44,230 --> 00:31:46,415

And so that brings up the question.

536

00:31:46,415 --> 00:31:50,943

I know that you said Shawn Michaels and that theme, and we were talking about that

earlier.

537

00:31:50,943 --> 00:31:54,388

Is that your favorite theme of all time or do you have a favorite theme?

538

00:31:54,388 --> 00:31:55,550

that's a great question.

539

00:31:55,550 --> 00:32:02,654

always have loved, I mean, and again, I'm very old school with all this stuff, so I'm sure

there's a million newer ones that I'm missing out on that I don't know.

540

00:32:02,654 --> 00:32:05,075

I always really liked Ultimate Warriors theme.

541

00:32:05,075 --> 00:32:08,486

And then it was like years later, I heard Communication Breakdown by Led Zeppelin.

542

00:32:08,486 --> 00:32:10,917

And I'm like, wait, that's the Ultimate Warriors riff.

543

00:32:10,917 --> 00:32:13,497

Da da da da da da da da da da do.

544

00:32:13,497 --> 00:32:15,399

You know, it's like, that's pretty much the same thing.

545

00:32:15,399 --> 00:32:19,605

And it just, you know, as soon as you hear that riff, what else can you imagine other than

546

00:32:19,605 --> 00:32:25,328

that coked up lunatic just sprinting to the ring dressed up like a girl bike with his

tassels, right?

547

00:32:25,328 --> 00:32:26,787

um I love that one.

548

00:32:26,787 --> 00:32:28,330

love Razor Ramon's theme.

549

00:32:28,330 --> 00:32:30,662

I think Razor Ramon has a really underrated theme.

550

00:32:30,662 --> 00:32:32,993

It's kind of got that sort of Havana vibe to it.

551

00:32:32,993 --> 00:32:37,416

Really slick like synth chords over I think a static bass note if I recall.

552

00:32:37,416 --> 00:32:39,078

Always really liked that one a lot.

553

00:32:39,078 --> 00:32:41,679

Yeah, Stone Cold's dude, I mean that's legendary.

554

00:32:41,679 --> 00:32:43,450

You can't not like that

555

00:32:43,904 --> 00:32:47,005

I feel like Razor Ramones is very under appreciated.

556

00:32:47,005 --> 00:32:47,555

agree with you.

557

00:32:47,555 --> 00:32:51,266

Cause like that, that's one where it's like, okay, who's the character.

558

00:32:51,266 --> 00:32:56,537

And you know, in a way he's like smooth, but he's sleazy and like, you know, you think

about the ultimate warrior.

559

00:32:56,537 --> 00:32:57,288

What did he do?

560

00:32:57,288 --> 00:32:58,488

He ran to the ring.

561

00:32:58,488 --> 00:33:04,700

And then when he was on the ring, he shook the ropes and then he, his move was a splash

where he ran against the ropes.

562

00:33:04,700 --> 00:33:07,431

And then he was like, you know, it was just like so much speed.

563

00:33:07,431 --> 00:33:08,032

Yeah.

564

00:33:08,032 --> 00:33:11,072

Just like unbelievably like what, what else would it be?

565

00:33:11,072 --> 00:33:13,385

And you think about like Razor Ramones and like,

566

00:33:13,385 --> 00:33:23,254

the way he walked to the ring pre Scott Hall and NWO right but like you know he was he was

walking to the ring he was so smooth about it he he didn't rush to the ring at all there

567

00:33:23,254 --> 00:33:27,257

was no time where Scott Hall ran to the ring he was just like all right

568

00:33:27,257 --> 00:33:30,458

Did his theme did it also start off with a noise?

569

00:33:30,458 --> 00:33:33,870

Wouldn't it like almost like some tropical birds in the go?

570

00:33:35,031 --> 00:33:36,100

And then the theme started.

571

00:33:36,100 --> 00:33:44,227

theme, I know his theme had like some metallic sounds in it too, like going throughout it

and that was kind of like, that would be like where the snare is or like the down or

572

00:33:44,227 --> 00:33:45,128

something like that.

573

00:33:45,128 --> 00:33:46,539

But yeah, I forget.

574

00:33:46,539 --> 00:33:48,110

I think his might've.

575

00:33:48,110 --> 00:33:50,071

If it did, yeah.

576

00:33:51,213 --> 00:34:00,330

There's gonna be one weird one that I bring up, which a lot of people don't think about

now, cause he wasn't really around for that long, but he helped inspire the Bray Wyatt

577

00:34:00,330 --> 00:34:00,862

character.

578

00:34:00,862 --> 00:34:02,263

His name was Waylon Mercy.

579

00:34:02,263 --> 00:34:03,468

And if you know,

580

00:34:03,468 --> 00:34:08,511

like modern wrestling, Bray Wyatt's probably like one of my favorites of all time, God

rest his soul now.

581

00:34:08,511 --> 00:34:15,556

But like when he first kind of came onto the scene as Bray Wyatt, he had the white pants

and he had the the button down Hawaiian shirt.

582

00:34:15,556 --> 00:34:23,060

It was very much in that style of Cape Fear and very much in the style of a wrestler that

came before him named Waylon Mercy.

583

00:34:23,060 --> 00:34:25,672

And Waylon Mercy was kind of in that same creepy vein.

584

00:34:25,672 --> 00:34:29,772

Like he was in like 1995, 96 and

585

00:34:29,772 --> 00:34:35,654

He would come to the, I'm going to get probably the 90 something wrong, but give me a

four, four year range, ladies and gentlemen.

586

00:34:35,654 --> 00:34:39,477

but he would in his promos, he'd be like, when I get into that ring, you know what I mean?

587

00:34:39,477 --> 00:34:44,699

And like, he would be like the creepiest guy in the world, but then you'd hear his theme

and like.

588

00:34:45,219 --> 00:34:47,291

Bray Wyatt's theme was like really culty.

589

00:34:47,291 --> 00:34:54,203

Like Mark Crozer did a really good job on that song, but then you hear like this guy's

theme and I'll send it to you.

590

00:34:54,203 --> 00:34:55,474

It's not super creepy.

591

00:34:55,474 --> 00:34:58,545

It's one of the, the one offs that I think is like.

592

00:34:58,803 --> 00:35:02,397

maybe in wrestling history, maybe one of the ones that could have been done a little

better.

593

00:35:02,397 --> 00:35:09,634

And again, guy comes out looking like Bray doing all that, shaking hands totally Southern

and then having this crazy look when he puts his guy to sleep or hold, but he's got a

594

00:35:09,634 --> 00:35:11,586

knife drawn onto his head.

595

00:35:11,586 --> 00:35:14,268

Like he'd go, you'd have a little knife drill in his head.

596

00:35:14,268 --> 00:35:16,830

And then the music's like ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding.

597

00:35:16,830 --> 00:35:21,654

And I'm like, I get you're trying to do that duality, but that was probably one of the

only misses for me ever.

598

00:35:21,654 --> 00:35:27,779

But all the other ones that, and I know you didn't bring that one up, but all the other

ones that you were bringing up, yeah, those are.

599

00:35:27,779 --> 00:35:28,820

Those are amazing.

600

00:35:28,820 --> 00:35:33,103

And I think just when you think about themes in general, like, yeah, those are the ones.

601

00:35:33,103 --> 00:35:35,345

Those are obviously the ones that you would go to.

602

00:35:35,345 --> 00:35:38,194

Macho Man's was always great, pomp and circumstance.

603

00:35:38,194 --> 00:35:40,434

man, that's like the pageantry.

604

00:35:40,434 --> 00:35:43,454

You know, they really rolled out the red carpet on that one.

605

00:35:43,454 --> 00:35:44,074

I liked it.

606

00:35:44,074 --> 00:35:47,354

And again, speaking of dearly departed man, just lost Sabu.

607

00:35:47,354 --> 00:35:48,894

I always liked Sabu's theme a lot.

608

00:35:48,894 --> 00:35:49,934

Sabu is one of my guys.

609

00:35:49,934 --> 00:35:51,814

That's always been one of my dudes.

610

00:35:51,814 --> 00:35:54,334

Sabu's theme kind of flies under the radar, but I think it's really cool too.

611

00:35:54,334 --> 00:35:55,694

Kind of exotic sounding.

612

00:35:55,815 --> 00:35:56,815

Rest in peace to Sabu.

613

00:35:56,815 --> 00:36:07,555

Like you said, it's a, it's a shame he's 60 gone, gone too soon, but you really think

about like his contributions in ECW and ECW did so much from the music side.

614

00:36:07,555 --> 00:36:09,255

Like you'll hear Paul Mahamon talk about it.

615

00:36:09,255 --> 00:36:11,435

He's like, we didn't really care about music rights.

616

00:36:11,435 --> 00:36:12,975

We just kind of did it.

617

00:36:12,975 --> 00:36:14,475

Like you had walk for what's his name.

618

00:36:14,475 --> 00:36:17,475

You had walk for a Rob Van Dam, which was super cool.

619

00:36:17,475 --> 00:36:18,415

Yeah.

620

00:36:18,815 --> 00:36:19,946

So yeah, it was.

621

00:36:19,946 --> 00:36:25,661

you get the licensed one that really pops like how I'm seeing punk and like, culture

personality, right?

622

00:36:27,443 --> 00:36:36,171

Like you hear that riff and you just think see him punk like every now and then you need a

licensed song to really, you know, hook up with a wrestler's persona and that can work

623

00:36:36,171 --> 00:36:36,921

too.

624

00:36:37,279 --> 00:36:39,791

Yeah, he's always had great themes throughout his career.

625

00:36:39,791 --> 00:36:44,395

And like before that he had kill switching gauges, this fire burns and that was great.

626

00:36:44,395 --> 00:36:45,136

Yeah.

627

00:36:45,136 --> 00:36:46,977

And that was so shocking when he came back.

628

00:36:46,977 --> 00:36:52,416

Cause you know, he had that going into money in the bank 2011 and it was like, he's not

going to leave with the belt.

629

00:36:52,416 --> 00:36:53,397

Cause they're not going to let him do that.

630

00:36:53,397 --> 00:36:55,155

And he left with the belt and he did his thing.

631

00:36:55,155 --> 00:36:57,277

And then they're like, seven days later, come back.

632

00:36:57,277 --> 00:36:58,899

he had cult of personality.

633

00:36:58,899 --> 00:37:02,041

And it's just, it's such an iconic theme now.

634

00:37:02,041 --> 00:37:05,632

And when he left, went to AEW and then.

635

00:37:05,632 --> 00:37:08,173

was out and then came back to WWE.

636

00:37:08,173 --> 00:37:09,503

No one knew he was going to call.

637

00:37:09,503 --> 00:37:13,294

A lot of people were like, there's no way CM Punk's coming back because look at what he

said.

638

00:37:13,294 --> 00:37:22,937

But all of a sudden the day before he, it's either the day before or the day he comes

back, living color put out a remixed version of it, like where they replayed it and re

639

00:37:22,937 --> 00:37:24,417

saying it and things.

640

00:37:24,558 --> 00:37:33,520

And you're just like, either they got really smart PR people and they're just like, we're

going to play up the fact that survivor series is in Chicago and he's there.

641

00:37:33,536 --> 00:37:34,739

Or he's coming back tonight.

642

00:37:34,739 --> 00:37:36,662

I don't know what we're doing, but...

643

00:37:36,750 --> 00:37:38,190

Wow, dude.

644

00:37:38,370 --> 00:37:39,210

That's funny.

645

00:37:39,210 --> 00:37:43,710

Oh, I really like, um, we were talking about how Shawn Michaels sang his own song.

646

00:37:44,150 --> 00:37:46,030

Um, I'm, I'm drawing a blank right now, dude.

647

00:37:46,030 --> 00:37:47,350

Uh, Fozzy.

648

00:37:48,070 --> 00:37:49,130

Um, thank you.

649

00:37:49,130 --> 00:37:49,770

Chris Jericho.

650

00:37:49,770 --> 00:37:52,182

His, his intro music is fantastic.

651

00:37:52,662 --> 00:37:53,232

Yeah.

652

00:37:53,232 --> 00:37:53,533

Yeah.

653

00:37:53,533 --> 00:38:00,518

He's so when you talk about him, you got to talk about the WWE one and you got to talk

about the one he uses now, Judas, which is from Fozzy.

654

00:38:00,518 --> 00:38:00,848

Yeah.

655

00:38:00,848 --> 00:38:01,668

Both of them are good.

656

00:38:01,668 --> 00:38:07,394

He's a, he's got, he's got the love of being able to have a really good entrance themes

over his career.

657

00:38:07,394 --> 00:38:11,587

And if your band can write and you're going to use one of your songs, do that one.

658

00:38:11,587 --> 00:38:15,245

Judas is great, but yeah.

659

00:38:15,245 --> 00:38:18,887

I remember loving his WWE WWF theme though break the walls down.

660

00:38:18,887 --> 00:38:25,913

remember like he would stand out on the stage with the arms crossed and little eight year

old me was like, yeah, my room with it.

661

00:38:25,913 --> 00:38:27,345

That was it.

662

00:38:27,345 --> 00:38:30,874

When you were a kid, who was the wrestler that you like most identified with?

663

00:38:30,874 --> 00:38:33,380

Were you like, I want to grow up and be that guy.

664

00:38:33,678 --> 00:38:35,149

I think it was Chris Jericho.

665

00:38:35,149 --> 00:38:37,020

It was either Chris Jericho or the Rock.

666

00:38:37,020 --> 00:38:42,364

And I think it's like, for me, I'd say Shawn Michaels is one, is probably my favorite of

all time.

667

00:38:42,364 --> 00:38:47,307

But like, you know, there is so much dancing that you can do in public.

668

00:38:47,307 --> 00:38:52,662

So you're kind of like, all right, like maybe not, but Chris Jericho to me, he was always

so funny.

669

00:38:52,662 --> 00:38:54,573

And I loved him in WCW too.

670

00:38:54,573 --> 00:38:55,653

He was so funny.

671

00:38:55,653 --> 00:38:56,554

He had the long hair.

672

00:38:56,554 --> 00:38:57,775

He was such a rocker.

673

00:38:57,775 --> 00:39:00,568

He would call people by the wrong names and like.

674

00:39:00,568 --> 00:39:04,091

He was just so cool and charismatic and that he had the best theme.

675

00:39:04,091 --> 00:39:10,295

And he was also like, back then there weren't lots of people doing like moon salts and

things like that.

676

00:39:10,295 --> 00:39:12,907

You know, he was just, I loved him for me.

677

00:39:12,907 --> 00:39:17,240

was like, man, if I could be a Chris Jericho when I grow up, I'll, I'll be me a Chris

Jericho.

678

00:39:17,240 --> 00:39:18,961

Yes, absolutely.

679

00:39:18,961 --> 00:39:21,243

And then everyone wants to either be the rock or stone cold.

680

00:39:21,243 --> 00:39:22,924

Cause they're just like, okay, cool.

681

00:39:22,924 --> 00:39:26,566

Those are like the two larger than life guys, the one a and the one B.

682

00:39:26,767 --> 00:39:27,747

All right.

683

00:39:28,288 --> 00:39:29,178

Yeah.

684

00:39:30,004 --> 00:39:30,845

man, that's so cool.

685

00:39:30,845 --> 00:39:34,227

And now we talk all about like what I was sending you the other day.

686

00:39:34,507 --> 00:39:41,100

Adam from tool being on Penta's theme and then being on Ray Phoenix's theme.

687

00:39:41,100 --> 00:39:42,261

That rules, man.

688

00:39:42,261 --> 00:39:46,034

It's also cool to see that, you know, I mean, it's, it's Adam Jones from tool.

689

00:39:46,034 --> 00:39:48,185

It's like, dude, doesn't have to write extra music.

690

00:39:48,185 --> 00:39:54,440

Guy could probably not work another day in his life and he'd be fine, you know, but he

still is just like, man, that sounds rad.

691

00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:55,391

I'll totally do that.

692

00:39:55,391 --> 00:39:58,353

That shows like love for it, which I really appreciate.

693

00:39:58,372 --> 00:39:58,872

Yeah.

694

00:39:58,872 --> 00:40:04,513

And you know, a couple of years ago, he had the picture of him on stage with the Pentagon

mask, which is the guy he had done the theme for.

695

00:40:04,513 --> 00:40:06,014

I was like, this is so cool.

696

00:40:06,014 --> 00:40:12,326

And like, you know, it's cool when you see people in media taking those little bits and

being like, okay, cool.

697

00:40:12,326 --> 00:40:13,586

Like I actually watch wrestling.

698

00:40:13,586 --> 00:40:15,647

Cause like you said, it's so niche.

699

00:40:15,647 --> 00:40:22,139

And even now, even now that, you know, states are going, we're going to bring it here and

we're going to pay to have it here.

700

00:40:22,139 --> 00:40:22,969

It's still niche.

701

00:40:22,969 --> 00:40:26,458

And I, I tell people as people don't believe me, but like when I

702

00:40:26,458 --> 00:40:29,170

travel for work or I travel for anything.

703

00:40:29,170 --> 00:40:35,374

You know, I usually tell people I do the wrestling entrance themes because you know, when

you explain the other sides of work, it's like, all right, cool, it is what it is.

704

00:40:35,374 --> 00:40:38,836

But when you explain the entrance themes thing, it's just kind of a fun conversation.

705

00:40:38,836 --> 00:40:45,300

And the first word out of lot of people's mouths are, man, yeah, like WWF man is, yeah, is

the rock still wrestling and things like that.

706

00:40:45,300 --> 00:40:51,218

And you're like, you know, it's not a dig on anyone, but it still tells you how niche of a

product it is, you know.

707

00:40:51,218 --> 00:40:59,774

It's the same way with like with metal in a lot of ways where the awareness of it from a

public eye perspective is higher than it's ever been.

708

00:40:59,774 --> 00:41:06,658

Like more people are aware of who, know, Metallica is or whatever, any, any metal band,

more people are aware of it.

709

00:41:07,620 --> 00:41:08,760

Yeah, exactly, man.

710

00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:09,131

Exactly.

711

00:41:09,131 --> 00:41:10,161

And wrestling is the same way.

712

00:41:10,161 --> 00:41:15,275

like, yeah, people are a lot more aware of it now than they were when I was a kid, but

yeah, you're right.

713

00:41:15,275 --> 00:41:19,850

It doesn't necessarily mean up to date and super knowledgeable about it.

714

00:41:19,850 --> 00:41:21,860

but the awareness is up,

715

00:41:22,236 --> 00:41:22,576

Yeah.

716

00:41:22,576 --> 00:41:28,136

And it's so interesting because you don't expect them to go to a tool show and see him

wearing a Pentagon mask.

717

00:41:28,136 --> 00:41:35,556

Cause even at that time, I think that picture was when he was in triple AR or he was

doing, um, like Lucha underground and things like that.

718

00:41:35,556 --> 00:41:37,436

So it's like, it's not one of these things.

719

00:41:37,436 --> 00:41:37,576

Yeah.

720

00:41:37,576 --> 00:41:43,736

It's not like, Oh, he did it in 2025 when, you know, Penta came to WWE or when he was in

AEW, right?

721

00:41:43,736 --> 00:41:50,196

A couple of years ago, you're talking about like fairly not in the public eye kind of

thing.

722

00:41:50,196 --> 00:41:50,776

You know?

723

00:41:50,776 --> 00:41:51,693

So for me, it's.

724

00:41:51,693 --> 00:41:53,454

to do it before it's cool, right?

725

00:41:53,454 --> 00:41:54,024

Exactly.

726

00:41:54,024 --> 00:41:54,444

Yeah.

727

00:41:54,444 --> 00:41:57,216

And so for me, I'm just like, man, I love the fact.

728

00:41:57,216 --> 00:41:58,787

they brought it up on TV too.

729

00:41:58,787 --> 00:42:02,829

They were like, this was from Tool or this was from Adam Jones from Tool.

730

00:42:02,829 --> 00:42:05,150

He went ahead and laid guitars over the theme.

731

00:42:05,150 --> 00:42:09,353

you know, the thing is with a lot of these companies now, they use like libraries, right?

732

00:42:09,353 --> 00:42:11,614

And the library track, it's cool.

733

00:42:11,614 --> 00:42:15,536

And then if they go, we're going to update it to the guy super over, we'll make something

custom for him.

734

00:42:15,536 --> 00:42:17,697

So like, it's another one of these things.

735

00:42:17,697 --> 00:42:19,738

Penta comes in, he's got this cool track.

736

00:42:19,738 --> 00:42:23,310

It's probably from a library, but I'm just like, there's again.

737

00:42:23,398 --> 00:42:26,534

there's no reason for Adam Jones to have done it.

738

00:42:26,534 --> 00:42:27,656

And then he's on it.

739

00:42:27,656 --> 00:42:30,100

And you're just like, sounds so much cooler now.

740

00:42:30,100 --> 00:42:34,527

And it's like, why don't we get all the guys on all the tracks because it's that cool.

741

00:42:34,527 --> 00:42:34,978

So

742

00:42:34,978 --> 00:42:35,749

way, right?

743

00:42:35,749 --> 00:42:36,209

You know what?

744

00:42:36,209 --> 00:42:39,123

That kind of brings an interesting thing to mind that I was going to ask you about too.

745

00:42:39,123 --> 00:42:44,358

Like, is there any movement within what you do of writing these themes for wrestlers?

746

00:42:44,358 --> 00:42:49,504

Is there any movement towards people just like ditching paying artists and using AI?

747

00:42:49,504 --> 00:42:53,730

Like, Hey, AI, write a wrestling theme for this zombie wrestler.

748

00:42:53,730 --> 00:42:55,642

Is there any movement towards that?

749

00:42:56,006 --> 00:43:06,180

I've had a few talents who have said that their promotional use AI because it's easier and

the thing is You know when I got into doing entrance themes about 2020 we I was doing a

750

00:43:06,180 --> 00:43:11,953

podcast with a couple buddies of mine and You know, we were interviewing people and I

would ask them I go how do you guys get?

751

00:43:11,953 --> 00:43:19,355

Music to use and at that point understand streaming wasn't as big there wasn't this

Triller fight all these things like as prominent as they are now

752

00:43:19,379 --> 00:43:26,199

And people were just like, man, we just go to the shows, we choose a song, and we hope we

don't get sued, and we hope it's not used by the person coming out after us, right?

753

00:43:26,199 --> 00:43:29,919

So like, this was really before AI started picking up.

754

00:43:29,919 --> 00:43:33,639

And so I was writing a lot of themes, and I'm still grateful to be writing a lot of

themes.

755

00:43:33,639 --> 00:43:42,139

But nowadays you'll have a lot of these companies who will go, well, we're going to stream

on Triller, or we're going to stream on one of these apps, and even on YouTube.

756

00:43:42,139 --> 00:43:46,705

And so instead of us having to get something from a library or, again,

757

00:43:46,705 --> 00:43:50,897

Wrestlers don't need to be lawyers knowing what certain things say.

758

00:43:50,897 --> 00:43:55,238

like, you know, they're going to rely on whoever's given them a real lease to say whatever

it's got to say.

759

00:43:55,238 --> 00:43:55,759

Right.

760

00:43:55,759 --> 00:43:59,021

It's probably easier for a lot of promoters to go, well, let's do something AI.

761

00:43:59,021 --> 00:44:09,527

The one thing I will say is while I do know that the practice exists and wrestlers, thank

you very much for this because y'all are great and y'all are doing the Lord's work here.

762

00:44:09,527 --> 00:44:15,763

I've had a lot of people come to me and be like, yeah, I hadn't a track done by AI, but I

want something done by a human.

763

00:44:15,763 --> 00:44:17,990

not just by me, but by a human.

764

00:44:17,990 --> 00:44:19,905

And I'm like, that's really cool.

765

00:44:19,905 --> 00:44:22,673

And I can even think of like three right off the bat, you know, it's.

766

00:44:22,673 --> 00:44:27,871

kind of like the equivalent of giving you a sketch on a napkin and being like, I want

this, but better.

767

00:44:28,157 --> 00:44:30,580

Yeah, and I think that's the power of AI.

768

00:44:30,580 --> 00:44:37,948

I think there's a lot of, we can talk a lot about AI, we're not going to now, but I think

that there's a lot of power in that.

769

00:44:37,948 --> 00:44:48,449

People that don't know and people that can't do a certain thing, using the tool to help

them ideate and them going, that's great, let me go over here and get someone to do it

770

00:44:48,449 --> 00:44:48,920

right.

771

00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:51,492

Or, yeah.

772

00:44:51,492 --> 00:45:00,457

you're right to the common person who has no musical ability, but they need a piece of

music to suit a certain thing like what you're talking about, but they don't have the they

773

00:45:00,457 --> 00:45:04,051

don't have the vocabulary to explain it to an actual musician.

774

00:45:04,051 --> 00:45:07,653

That could be an effective tool to be like, I'm trying to communicate what I want.

775

00:45:07,653 --> 00:45:11,926

I had a I spit this out because I don't speak your language as a musician.

776

00:45:11,926 --> 00:45:14,158

So please take this and do it up right.

777

00:45:14,158 --> 00:45:15,759

Do it like a real musician would.

778

00:45:15,759 --> 00:45:19,672

I hope that more people have that level of integrity to use it that way.

779

00:45:19,672 --> 00:45:21,232

We'll see.

780

00:45:21,706 --> 00:45:23,797

Yeah, it's a crazy world with that.

781

00:45:23,797 --> 00:45:34,279

I will say that I think that the more time goes on, the more you're seeing that kind of

separation between AI and the human side, because there's always going to be, you know,

782

00:45:34,279 --> 00:45:35,723

and I'm no stranger to it.

783

00:45:35,723 --> 00:45:39,845

I'd love to use more drummers in the work that I do because drummers, y'all are

phenomenal.

784

00:45:39,845 --> 00:45:41,971

And, you know, I'd love to be able to bring it in.

785

00:45:41,971 --> 00:45:48,119

A lot of the times I do end up writing in drum parts into drum machines and being able to

use those for a lot of the work that I do.

786

00:45:48,119 --> 00:45:49,440

But I'm still composing it.

787

00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:54,336

One thing I really try to make sure that I don't do is use loops that are musically

driven.

788

00:45:54,336 --> 00:46:02,722

If I need an explosion sound effect, yes, I will use an explosion sound effect, but that's

also using a sitar to get a certain sound or an acoustic.

789

00:46:02,722 --> 00:46:10,069

But if I had to have the sitar play something for me, I'm like, well, that's when we start

to get into non-creative dicey territory, in my opinion.

790

00:46:10,069 --> 00:46:14,378

um But I think that a lot of people are starting to see that...

791

00:46:14,378 --> 00:46:22,630

even though AI is, you know, in a lot of ways decent, there is something to having that

human element, even if it's just that extra little bit.

792

00:46:22,630 --> 00:46:28,212

It's that little extra little bit to tell the person, can you add like an extra second of

silence here?

793

00:46:28,212 --> 00:46:30,303

And like, can you do this little thing?

794

00:46:30,303 --> 00:46:32,813

Because the computer doesn't get what I'm doing.

795

00:46:32,813 --> 00:46:33,633

know?

796

00:46:35,154 --> 00:46:36,754

Exactly, yeah.

797

00:46:36,754 --> 00:46:42,516

you know, it's a lot, and I think there will always be a struggle kind of with AI,

especially nowadays, but I think that...

798

00:46:42,520 --> 00:46:43,360

I think we're doing it.

799

00:46:43,360 --> 00:46:45,361

think we're to a degree we're doing it.

800

00:46:45,361 --> 00:46:54,163

I think if you watch Mary Spender's last video and like the modern state of music industry

and like, yeah, she's, she's always great and she's super transparent about everything.

801

00:46:54,163 --> 00:47:02,946

And I love that she has that transparency to her, but she's also talked about like, well,

even though AI and Spotify and all that stuff is here, there's still a lot of hope for

802

00:47:02,946 --> 00:47:03,406

what we do.

803

00:47:03,406 --> 00:47:10,798

And I love that because it talks about like authenticity and even in wrestling, it's like,

you know, if you're cookie cutter doing something, it's one thing, but you still got to go

804

00:47:10,798 --> 00:47:11,564

to a show.

805

00:47:11,564 --> 00:47:13,286

You still got to watch someone on TV.

806

00:47:13,286 --> 00:47:14,868

They still got to connect with you.

807

00:47:14,868 --> 00:47:25,533

And I think that what AI does show is that, things can be done by other, robots or by code

or whatever, but you're always still going to have to have that authenticity to what you

808

00:47:25,533 --> 00:47:26,004

do.

809

00:47:26,004 --> 00:47:26,516

So.

810

00:47:26,516 --> 00:47:27,737

exactly, exactly.

811

00:47:27,737 --> 00:47:37,540

And, ultimately all those AI models that we currently have access to are all just

gathering information by scraping it off the work of actual human creativity.

812

00:47:37,980 --> 00:47:48,244

You know, so it is ultimately all human based, you know, all of that stuff that we consume

that's AI based is ultimately taken from human experience.

813

00:47:48,666 --> 00:47:49,397

Exactly.

814

00:47:49,397 --> 00:47:57,784

One of the things that AI will never take are again when you have that dead and lovely

Facebook group, which was so active and still is active pretty, which is cool.

815

00:47:58,185 --> 00:48:01,809

You guys would always be like, Hey, ask us questions for the show.

816

00:48:01,809 --> 00:48:09,351

And my dumb ass would always be the one like, Hey, if you had to make a WrestleMania with

a bunch of horror people, who would they be?

817

00:48:09,351 --> 00:48:10,152

fun, dude.

818

00:48:10,152 --> 00:48:14,174

Anytime we did like a, an FAQ thing on the show, it was always so fun.

819

00:48:14,174 --> 00:48:20,568

And I love those kinds of questions specifically, you know, cause that's just an excuse to

get creative and get stupid, man.

820

00:48:20,568 --> 00:48:26,755

Those are, those are the parts of the show that I miss honestly, like, or just the excuses

to be stupid on air.

821

00:48:26,755 --> 00:48:28,907

Well, you guys had such a great show too.

822

00:48:28,907 --> 00:48:33,851

like, you know, at one point, I'm sure it's like, well, how far, how many horror movies

are there?

823

00:48:33,851 --> 00:48:43,569

You know, but it's a lot, it's a lot, but you also had such a vibrant group of people who

were in that group, just all talking about horror, talking about wrestling, talking about

824

00:48:43,569 --> 00:48:44,369

just like everything.

825

00:48:44,369 --> 00:48:45,970

And it was so super cool.

826

00:48:45,970 --> 00:48:48,752

you know, I'm always, yeah, I still go back and listen to those.

827

00:48:48,752 --> 00:48:49,337

Hell yeah.

828

00:48:49,337 --> 00:48:49,978

It's so cool.

829

00:48:49,978 --> 00:48:55,940

man and it was really fun to see that community grow as something beyond like because the

show was never just about horror movies.

830

00:48:55,940 --> 00:49:04,344

You know, we always made it very clear the show is just an excuse for us to hang out and

shoot the shit every week and we had to talk about a movie later on in the show.

831

00:49:04,344 --> 00:49:12,889

So I always appreciated that our fans and our Facebook group and all that reflected that

where it wasn't just people talking about horror stuff.

832

00:49:12,889 --> 00:49:13,659

It was.

833

00:49:13,731 --> 00:49:22,649

Everything within the entire sphere of everything we talked about on the show, included

guitar stuff and wrestling and cooking and whatever else, you know.

834

00:49:23,282 --> 00:49:25,753

Now, I'm gonna ask you two questions before we're done.

835

00:49:25,753 --> 00:49:27,905

And one of them is very much in the vein of that.

836

00:49:27,905 --> 00:49:36,049

Because I feel like, you know, with how long we've known each other with this, with

Deadly, with all that stuff, it would be inappropriate for me to not throw in a question

837

00:49:36,049 --> 00:49:37,209

about build this.

838

00:49:37,209 --> 00:49:49,255

So, as we are both in that guitar ecosystem here, I asked you a while ago, for the Dead

and Lovely, if you had to build a WrestleMania card all about horror people, who would you

839

00:49:49,255 --> 00:49:50,256

put in and why?

840

00:49:50,256 --> 00:49:51,825

If you had to build...

841

00:49:51,825 --> 00:49:53,468

Let's say a three card match.

842

00:49:53,468 --> 00:49:56,575

So three matches with guitarists.

843

00:49:56,575 --> 00:49:59,116

Who would they be and what would be some of the matches?

844

00:49:59,116 --> 00:50:02,548

man, oh That's brutal.

845

00:50:02,548 --> 00:50:03,859

Okay.

846

00:50:03,859 --> 00:50:04,277

All right.

847

00:50:04,277 --> 00:50:11,996

So first match I want to see I want to see the battle of the bar I'm talking about the

whammy bar masters Jeff Beck and Steve Vai.

848

00:50:11,996 --> 00:50:15,314

I want to see them go bar to bar Rocking it out.

849

00:50:15,314 --> 00:50:18,945

See who can control that that'll kickstand more better.

850

00:50:18,945 --> 00:50:22,868

So the battle of the bars I want to see a total package match.

851

00:50:23,108 --> 00:50:24,945

Okay total package being

852

00:50:24,945 --> 00:50:28,567

guys that are equally insane riffers and shredders.

853

00:50:28,927 --> 00:50:32,880

So I'm thinking Dimebag Darryl versus Vogue from Decapitated.

854

00:50:32,880 --> 00:50:35,932

Because Vogue is one of the ultimate total package players.

855

00:50:35,932 --> 00:50:40,024

That would be like, that would be the underdog in that match, you know?

856

00:50:40,143 --> 00:50:41,666

And good call on Decapitated too.

857

00:50:41,666 --> 00:50:51,062

I feel like in the world of guitaring and the world of metal, Decapitated has been around

for years, but no matter how long they've been around for, still incredibly underrated.

858

00:50:51,062 --> 00:50:51,919

my God.

859

00:50:51,919 --> 00:51:02,452

dude people sleep on that band like crazy, and I don't understand why like the guitar

playing is bananas Yeah, but also the songs are so freakin sick man.

860

00:51:02,452 --> 00:51:11,584

I Love that band and again Vogue is a total package player say so battle the bar total

package and gosh, I gotta think of a good one here.

861

00:51:11,584 --> 00:51:15,408

I got something something good to get these guys going toe-to-toe

862

00:51:15,408 --> 00:51:18,796

Is there anybody that came to mind for you whenever you thought up this question?

863

00:51:19,154 --> 00:51:19,895

I don't know.

864

00:51:19,895 --> 00:51:22,834

For me, there's so many great guitarists.

865

00:51:22,834 --> 00:51:25,540

And the thing is like, yeah.

866

00:51:26,122 --> 00:51:26,945

Go ahead.

867

00:51:26,945 --> 00:51:27,631

no, go ahead with it.

868

00:51:27,631 --> 00:51:28,462

Yeah, yeah, you got it.

869

00:51:28,462 --> 00:51:29,143

Keep it up.

870

00:51:29,143 --> 00:51:31,063

I want to have I want to have a freak show match.

871

00:51:31,063 --> 00:51:37,663

I want to have Buckethead versus John 5 get the real theatrical guys together, you know,

have them duke it out.

872

00:51:37,663 --> 00:51:40,955

I want to see the battle of the of the freak show players.

873

00:51:41,380 --> 00:51:43,271

my God, that'd be perfect too.

874

00:51:43,271 --> 00:51:45,434

And they both obviously have to be full garb and everything.

875

00:51:45,434 --> 00:51:49,228

None of the John five without the makeup, like totally like how he would play live.

876

00:51:49,228 --> 00:51:50,380

Absolutely.

877

00:51:50,380 --> 00:51:51,400

my gosh.

878

00:51:51,461 --> 00:51:52,342

That'd be a good one.

879

00:51:52,342 --> 00:51:55,665

And now I'm thinking, I'm like, man, who would it be?

880

00:51:55,665 --> 00:52:00,920

I feel like it'd have to be like for world championship, would have to be Steve Vai versus

Guthrie Govan.

881

00:52:00,945 --> 00:52:02,770

yeah, dude, now we're talking.

882

00:52:02,852 --> 00:52:06,574

Yeah, like it's like the A1 and the AB like we always talk about.

883

00:52:06,574 --> 00:52:12,368

That's like the stone cold versus the rock of guitar playing, you know, and no disrespect

to anybody else.

884

00:52:12,368 --> 00:52:15,162

but then you have who else?

885

00:52:15,162 --> 00:52:17,111

feel like it would just be Guthrie Govan versus everybody.

886

00:52:17,111 --> 00:52:21,913

The legacy guys Guthrie Govan versus Satriani, you know, all those, you know what you

could do?

887

00:52:21,913 --> 00:52:23,414

You could have a really good matchup.

888

00:52:23,414 --> 00:52:29,882

You could have Kirk Hammett versus, Joe Satriani and have that be a whole teacher to

mentor kind of thing.

889

00:52:29,882 --> 00:52:32,065

there's a lot of storyline right there, right?

890

00:52:32,065 --> 00:52:33,487

Teacher versus student match.

891

00:52:33,487 --> 00:52:34,748

I like how that sounds a lot.

892

00:52:34,748 --> 00:52:37,481

You can do the same thing with five versus snatch as well there.

893

00:52:37,599 --> 00:52:38,872

I like it.

894

00:52:38,872 --> 00:52:41,425

Bys got the height advantage man.

895

00:52:42,203 --> 00:52:43,628

yeah, you know what's interesting?

896

00:52:43,628 --> 00:52:45,594

None of us brought up Malmsteen for anything.

897

00:52:45,594 --> 00:52:48,866

oh

898

00:52:49,179 --> 00:52:51,243

step into the ring with the Viking?

899

00:52:51,243 --> 00:52:52,345

None of us, man.

900

00:52:52,345 --> 00:52:53,697

Too intimidated.

901

00:52:53,795 --> 00:52:54,756

You know what though?

902

00:52:54,756 --> 00:53:02,840

I am gonna throw this one out there and I don't know why and I think it's just because

again he's just a monster of a player but he's also ripped to the gills even though he's

903

00:53:02,840 --> 00:53:03,340

older.

904

00:53:03,340 --> 00:53:05,882

George Lynch versus Yngwie Malmsteen?

905

00:53:05,882 --> 00:53:07,024

Like that'd be one.

906

00:53:07,024 --> 00:53:10,447

or or Petrushy because Petrushy is Jack too, right?

907

00:53:12,690 --> 00:53:14,861

That'd be like the hunk match, right?

908

00:53:16,672 --> 00:53:17,512

my God, that'd be great.

909

00:53:17,512 --> 00:53:18,112

And you know what?

910

00:53:18,112 --> 00:53:23,135

I'll throw one in for the, for our female brethren here as well, because I'm so happy.

911

00:53:23,135 --> 00:53:24,985

And I say this all the time with my students.

912

00:53:24,985 --> 00:53:28,996

I'm so happy that a lot of my students are girls now for guitar too.

913

00:53:28,996 --> 00:53:37,479

Cause I'm just like, man, I love the fact of seeing that next generation of guitarists

really get into it and it not just being dudes and seeing like girls really rock out on

914

00:53:37,479 --> 00:53:37,811

it.

915

00:53:37,811 --> 00:53:39,091

Should I put Gretchen Menon?

916

00:53:39,091 --> 00:53:39,931

Yes, I'm going to put Gretchen.

917

00:53:39,931 --> 00:53:43,171

I'm going to put Gretchen Menon and Anne Wilson because that one.

918

00:53:43,171 --> 00:53:45,071

Yeah, they're both phenomenal players.

919

00:53:45,071 --> 00:53:49,151

I almost feel like that one wouldn't even be like there'd be no grudge there.

920

00:53:49,151 --> 00:53:50,711

It would literally just be both of them.

921

00:53:50,711 --> 00:53:51,551

Well, here we are.

922

00:53:51,551 --> 00:53:52,651

Let's just shred together.

923

00:53:52,651 --> 00:53:55,311

And then it would be like a total like pose down kind of thing.

924

00:53:55,311 --> 00:53:56,451

It'd be awesome.

925

00:53:56,876 --> 00:53:58,429

I love how that sounds.

926

00:53:58,429 --> 00:54:02,441

That's amazing, But yeah, you're right, man.

927

00:54:02,441 --> 00:54:06,503

The explosion of female guitar players for the future is huge, man.

928

00:54:06,503 --> 00:54:08,443

That is a huge wave that's coming.

929

00:54:08,759 --> 00:54:09,240

Yeah.

930

00:54:09,240 --> 00:54:11,492

And you know, you hear so many good ones now.

931

00:54:11,492 --> 00:54:20,842

And I'm just like, every time you go on Instagram, every time you hear a new record come

out, it's just like, man, I wish we would have had so many more of these players

932

00:54:20,842 --> 00:54:25,457

throughout time, just because I wish there was even so much more of a highlight, like just

over time.

933

00:54:25,457 --> 00:54:27,349

But now, now the internet's given that to us.

934

00:54:27,349 --> 00:54:27,638

So.

935

00:54:27,638 --> 00:54:38,237

I think too that you're seeing the power of representation at work there too, you know,

because when, I was a kid, if you were a girl that played guitar, I mean, we had like lead

936

00:54:38,237 --> 00:54:44,265

afford, you know, there just weren't many, you know, yeah, yeah, the chicks from heart.

937

00:54:44,265 --> 00:54:46,096

but it wasn't really about their playing.

938

00:54:46,096 --> 00:54:48,008

It was about the singing and the songs and all that.

939

00:54:48,008 --> 00:54:49,969

So there just wasn't that much representation.

940

00:54:49,969 --> 00:54:53,832

So I would imagine if you were a young female back then,

941

00:54:53,938 --> 00:55:00,834

It was hard to imagine yourself taking that spot because you didn't see yourself

represented that way in media and in music and all that.

942

00:55:00,834 --> 00:55:06,829

But nowadays, I mean, I'm no Taylor Swift fan by any means, although by all accounts, a

wonderful person.

943

00:55:06,829 --> 00:55:10,041

I've known people who've worked on her crew and she's treated her crew like gold.

944

00:55:10,041 --> 00:55:15,146

So I appreciate that about her, but I'm not necessarily a fan of her music, but I think

just.

945

00:55:15,547 --> 00:55:21,268

You know, for a lot of for a lot of girls that they're seeing like, my God, this is a girl

that plays guitar.

946

00:55:21,268 --> 00:55:23,131

and she's making it, she's on the screen.

947

00:55:23,131 --> 00:55:24,855

There's that representation factor.

948

00:55:24,855 --> 00:55:28,923

Here's somebody that looks like me that's doing what I wanna do and they're nailing it.

949

00:55:28,923 --> 00:55:30,505

Maybe that means I got a chance at it.

950

00:55:30,505 --> 00:55:32,658

I think we're seeing the power of representation.

951

00:55:33,286 --> 00:55:34,107

I agree with that too.

952

00:55:34,107 --> 00:55:41,436

And because you brought up Taylor Swift before I ask you the final question, because you

brought up Taylor Swift, do you know who Taylor Swift used to babysit for who's in the

953

00:55:41,436 --> 00:55:42,628

wrestling industry?

954

00:55:43,212 --> 00:55:44,336

No.

955

00:55:44,562 --> 00:55:45,643

Jeff Jarrett.

956

00:55:46,337 --> 00:55:47,010

What?

957

00:55:47,010 --> 00:55:48,867

Double J Jeff Jarrett?

958

00:55:49,353 --> 00:55:50,199

You're kidding.

959

00:55:50,199 --> 00:55:53,123

posted a picture and he was like, yeah, Taylor Swift used to be our babysitter.

960

00:55:53,123 --> 00:55:57,100

And there's the picture of her teaching the kids music while he's just there in the

background.

961

00:55:57,100 --> 00:55:58,131

Just like, ain't I great?

962

00:55:58,131 --> 00:56:00,681

No, I'm just like, this is so cool.

963

00:56:00,681 --> 00:56:04,246

And then did he like take the guitar and smash it, El Cabong him, you know?

964

00:56:04,427 --> 00:56:05,430

That's all he could teach him.

965

00:56:05,430 --> 00:56:09,893

that's how he like, as, as time went on, he tried to do it and she's like, not today.

966

00:56:09,893 --> 00:56:12,174

And that's how he, that's how she started.

967

00:56:14,916 --> 00:56:15,336

Yeah.

968

00:56:15,336 --> 00:56:16,507

It's so cool to see that.

969

00:56:16,507 --> 00:56:19,628

And like, you know, it's, it's just so interesting to me.

970

00:56:19,628 --> 00:56:24,582

There's always so much music and wrestling intersects in the world and you'll find it.

971

00:56:24,582 --> 00:56:25,362

You'll see it.

972

00:56:25,362 --> 00:56:30,454

Even hardcore music now is getting into wrestling and it's been there for a while, but

like, there's so much to it.

973

00:56:30,454 --> 00:56:30,999

Yup.

974

00:56:30,999 --> 00:56:34,332

question I'm gonna ask you before you leave and I ask all the guests before they leave.

975

00:56:34,332 --> 00:56:42,481

If you had to think of three songs to put on a Spotify or Apple playlist that represent

Ben Eller, what are those three songs?

976

00:56:42,481 --> 00:56:43,174

my God.

977

00:56:43,174 --> 00:56:44,586

Okay.

978

00:56:45,488 --> 00:56:48,162

Me as a player or me as a person.

979

00:56:48,213 --> 00:56:50,749

You can do a list for both if you'd like.

980

00:56:50,749 --> 00:56:55,780

I mean, they're kind of intertwined really, you know, those two things are definitely

intertwined.

981

00:56:55,780 --> 00:56:56,881

Let's see.

982

00:56:57,259 --> 00:57:03,584

I don't think that I would be playing music if not for Dookie by Green Day.

983

00:57:03,624 --> 00:57:14,787

Like that's honestly kind of my secret origin story is, you know, I heard Green Day

whenever my brother got that CD from the pawn shop and I'd grown up listening to Van Halen

984

00:57:14,787 --> 00:57:17,974

and ZZ Top and all this, you know, really hot stuff on guitar.

985

00:57:17,974 --> 00:57:21,145

before I even picked up the instrument and it was like, I could never do that.

986

00:57:21,145 --> 00:57:22,225

I could never play like that.

987

00:57:22,225 --> 00:57:22,705

You know what I mean?

988

00:57:22,705 --> 00:57:30,187

I kind of gave up before I even started, but I heard Green Day and I was like, this sounds

like something I could do.

989

00:57:30,187 --> 00:57:32,208

I bet I could do this, you know?

990

00:57:32,208 --> 00:57:38,279

Again, there's that representation thing, you know, there's somebody who's not a guitar

god and they're out here rocking and playing songs all over the world.

991

00:57:38,279 --> 00:57:39,510

Maybe that could be me next.

992

00:57:39,510 --> 00:57:43,851

So I maybe have like, like Welcome to Paradise off of Dookie.

993

00:57:43,851 --> 00:57:45,741

It's probably one I would have on there.

994

00:57:46,031 --> 00:57:51,071

I would probably have, I'd have to have, I'm the one by Van Halen.

995

00:57:51,071 --> 00:57:54,551

mean, Van Halen has always been at the, at the cornerstone of my being.

996

00:57:54,551 --> 00:58:02,331

It's like literally my oldest memories I have as a human being are listening to Van Halen

one, like earliest memories period.

997

00:58:02,331 --> 00:58:07,591

It's that needle dropping on my parents vinyl of Van Halen one and hearing eruption.

998

00:58:07,591 --> 00:58:09,971

And you really got me in songs like that.

999

00:58:09,971 --> 00:58:14,431

I'm the one has always just been like that's the most bad ass guitar song of all time.

00:58:15,152 --> 00:58:18,287

and I would have to have some Steve Vai on there wouldn't I?

00:58:18,287 --> 00:58:28,805

I'd have to you know because again that's the guy that really cemented like I have to do

this the rest of my life you know Green Day was kind of the spark and Steve Vai was the

00:58:28,805 --> 00:58:39,512

the stick of dynamite you know that really just blew me up so maybe something off of

Passion and Warfare because that's the album that changed my life for sure I don't want to

00:58:39,512 --> 00:58:42,066

say For the Love of God because I'm not really a balladsman

00:58:42,066 --> 00:58:44,647

although that's obviously a very important piece of music.

00:58:44,647 --> 00:58:48,569

Maybe something like, probably like Erotic Nightmares.

00:58:48,569 --> 00:58:55,339

Yeah, that was a song that I remember hearing on that and it starts off with all the kind

of typical guitar virtuoso stuff.

00:58:55,339 --> 00:59:01,034

It's got a sick riff, it's got whammy bar stuff and all kinds of cool rock-isms in there.

00:59:01,034 --> 00:59:03,845

And then it gets to the dream sequence part of the song.

00:59:03,845 --> 00:59:05,236

You know the tune, don't you?

00:59:05,646 --> 00:59:10,458

It gets to the dream sequence part of the song and it's just really abstract and weird.

00:59:10,750 --> 00:59:14,822

I don't know it opened my eyes to what you can do with instrumental music.

00:59:14,822 --> 00:59:16,486

So I'd probably have to have that on there.

00:59:16,486 --> 00:59:19,403

Yeah Green Day Van Halen and Steve Vai.

00:59:19,764 --> 00:59:21,044

That's a great list.

00:59:21,044 --> 00:59:25,584

And because you brought up Steve Vai, I think Steve Vai would be on mine too.

00:59:25,584 --> 00:59:29,844

Because to me, Steve Vai is always just like my favorite guitarist of all time.

00:59:30,704 --> 00:59:33,464

yeah, everyone can come after him and before him.

00:59:33,464 --> 00:59:41,644

But for me, it's like when you think about a composer, you think about a complete package,

you think about somebody who's just overly unique and everything is musical, it's him.

00:59:41,644 --> 00:59:48,084

And for me, I remember when I had first heard about Steve Vai years, and obviously when I

was a kid, was like, all right, cool.

00:59:48,456 --> 00:59:49,887

You know, when I looked at him, I'm all right, whatever.

00:59:49,887 --> 00:59:50,887

weird thing to say.

00:59:50,887 --> 00:59:55,918

But then I remember hearing building the church and building the church was life changing.

00:59:55,918 --> 00:59:59,259

Cause like, I had learned about tapping, but I was like, I'm never going to be able to do

that.

00:59:59,259 --> 01:00:03,190

I'm just a rhythm player, you know, cause that's the kind of silly things we think about

when we're young.

01:00:03,190 --> 01:00:06,111

And then all of sudden they hear that and I'm like, what is this?

01:00:06,111 --> 01:00:08,132

Like, just this is cool.

01:00:08,132 --> 01:00:10,653

And then I saw him doing it with his hand over the neck doing this.

01:00:10,653 --> 01:00:13,173

And I'm like, what are we doing?

01:00:14,434 --> 01:00:15,455

It's crazy.

01:00:15,455 --> 01:00:17,458

And then the riffs in that song and the soul.

01:00:17,458 --> 01:00:20,541

That's that's one of his most well composed songs, in my opinion.

01:00:20,541 --> 01:00:23,054

Just the flow of that tune is so beautiful.

01:00:23,426 --> 01:00:30,735

Yeah, yeah, that that record I think is to me, I know a lot of people go with Flexibles

and they go with all that for me.

01:00:30,735 --> 01:00:33,147

I still fit my favorite Steve Vai record of all time.

01:00:33,147 --> 01:00:38,944

And it might just be because that's the one that got me really into it is real illusions,

reflections.

01:00:38,944 --> 01:00:42,369

You know, the second one is cool, but the first one is like, yeah, that's for me.

01:00:42,369 --> 01:00:43,083

it's cool.

01:00:43,083 --> 01:00:43,584

man.

01:00:43,584 --> 01:00:46,145

have a same kind of similar soft spot for the ultra zone.

01:00:46,145 --> 01:00:48,706

Cause that came out like I'll put it to you this way.

01:00:48,706 --> 01:00:50,847

You know, I I've gotten passion warfare.

01:00:51,167 --> 01:00:57,863

Whenever the ultra zone came out, that was the first new Steve vie album to come out after

I started playing guitar.

01:00:57,863 --> 01:00:58,610

Does that make sense?

01:00:58,610 --> 01:01:00,170

Does that say that right?

01:01:00,251 --> 01:01:03,112

So it was the first new vie album that came out.

01:01:03,112 --> 01:01:06,723

So I got that and songs on there like he has ultra zone.

01:01:06,723 --> 01:01:09,028

Ooh, he's one of my absolute favorites.

01:01:09,028 --> 01:01:10,178

fever dream.

01:01:10,178 --> 01:01:11,119

my God.

01:01:11,119 --> 01:01:15,200

Easily in my top three Steve Bison's fever dream is the best.

01:01:15,240 --> 01:01:23,423

I have a real soft spot for that record, even though it does have some really cheesy

sounds like Disney ballads with vocals on it that I, I skip.

01:01:23,423 --> 01:01:24,013

Sorry, Steve.

01:01:24,013 --> 01:01:29,145

I skipped those, but the instrumentals on it are so freaking good, man.

01:01:30,005 --> 01:01:31,015

What else is on your play?

01:01:31,015 --> 01:01:33,216

You got me thinking what else is on your playlist?

01:01:33,226 --> 01:01:35,678

Yeah, so I'll put building the church on there for sure.

01:01:35,678 --> 01:01:38,410

And I promise I'm not stealing a lot of yours.

01:01:38,410 --> 01:01:41,512

It's just, I think we grew up fairly simpatico on here.

01:01:41,793 --> 01:01:43,134

Exactly, yes.

01:01:43,134 --> 01:01:50,481

And so Van Halen for me, I didn't get into them until I was much older, but the way I'd

gotten into Ozzy was off.

01:01:50,481 --> 01:01:52,723

We went into the Walgreens one day and my dad had got me.

01:01:52,723 --> 01:01:53,864

It was like, can I get this record?

01:01:53,864 --> 01:01:55,325

It was the greatest hits of Ozzy.

01:01:55,325 --> 01:01:56,426

And he was like, yeah, totally.

01:01:56,426 --> 01:01:57,975

So I got that and...

01:01:57,975 --> 01:01:58,875

You know, I heard crazy trade.

01:01:58,875 --> 01:02:00,217

I'm like, all right, I kind of knew Tracy train.

01:02:00,217 --> 01:02:00,658

Great.

01:02:00,658 --> 01:02:01,999

I heard bark at the moon.

01:02:01,999 --> 01:02:03,961

I was like, what is this?

01:02:03,961 --> 01:02:05,703

Like to me?

01:02:05,703 --> 01:02:06,192

Yeah.

01:02:06,192 --> 01:02:07,896

And I heresy be damned.

01:02:07,896 --> 01:02:08,186

Right.

01:02:08,186 --> 01:02:15,224

But for me, I will always say that bark of the moon is probably my favorite Ozzy song of

all time.

01:02:15,224 --> 01:02:17,176

It's like, it's so different.

01:02:17,176 --> 01:02:17,756

I'm sorry.

01:02:17,756 --> 01:02:19,137

It's not Randy.

01:02:19,799 --> 01:02:20,759

Yeah.

01:02:21,229 --> 01:02:22,249

is not Randy Rhoades.

01:02:22,249 --> 01:02:25,603

Randy Rhoades is phenomenal, but like they're so, the song is great.

01:02:25,603 --> 01:02:27,185

There's so much cool stuff in there.

01:02:27,185 --> 01:02:32,399

And like you think about the way that he played that it was unbelievable.

01:02:32,399 --> 01:02:42,259

And then in terms of a third one, okay, in terms of a third one, I'm going to go a little

bit out of left field because I, I wouldn't be me if I didn't.

01:02:42,259 --> 01:02:44,241

It's a band called a Wilhelm scream.

01:02:44,241 --> 01:02:46,413

And when I was in college, it's

01:02:47,329 --> 01:02:50,352

Yeah, they're still to this day, one of my favorite bands.

01:02:50,352 --> 01:02:55,636

And up into college, I was very much, you know, just guitar driven music and, you know,

things like that.

01:02:55,636 --> 01:03:04,034

But when I got into college, a buddy of mine, Seth, was very much into like this, what we

call like melodic hardcore style, you know, and like that heart sounds, kinds of bands.

01:03:04,034 --> 01:03:09,208

And I feel like if you put a guitar in my hands, that's the style I play with instrumental

vibes to it.

01:03:09,208 --> 01:03:09,560

Right.

01:03:09,560 --> 01:03:14,058

And I remember hearing this song by them called the horse and I was like,

01:03:14,058 --> 01:03:17,060

This song is crazy and it's got like the super tapping bass solo.

01:03:17,060 --> 01:03:18,971

The guitars are doing really cool stuff.

01:03:18,971 --> 01:03:20,912

It's like technical punk.

01:03:20,912 --> 01:03:24,074

It's like punk in different time signatures and things like that.

01:03:24,074 --> 01:03:30,358

And it's the records that they've put out like mute print and things like that are some of

my favorites, but that song changed for me.

01:03:30,358 --> 01:03:36,701

Like it was right before I heard probably like the same week actually that I heard protest

the hero.

01:03:36,701 --> 01:03:41,300

And so those two will always be like my one a and one B for like.

01:03:41,300 --> 01:03:41,980

that style.

01:03:41,980 --> 01:03:49,760

Protested Heroes is a lot more dramatic and a lot more like crazy, but if you listen to

like, uh, Kazaya and that kind of record, for me, it's like, okay, cool.

01:03:49,760 --> 01:03:53,560

Like it's either the horse from that or Blindfold Decide by Protest.

01:03:53,560 --> 01:03:55,800

And I'm like, yeah.

01:03:56,300 --> 01:04:00,660

So it's a lot of different things.

01:04:01,400 --> 01:04:01,640

Yeah.

01:04:01,640 --> 01:04:02,860

Uh-oh.

01:04:02,860 --> 01:04:03,536

Uh-oh.

01:04:03,536 --> 01:04:07,556

this just before we got on the air and it came to me again, it came to me so fast.

01:04:07,556 --> 01:04:08,276

was like, that's it.

01:04:08,276 --> 01:04:09,456

That's the answer.

01:04:09,676 --> 01:04:10,896

All right.

01:04:10,896 --> 01:04:19,956

If you were a hardcore Razzler, what is your finishing move and what is your, you know,

like trademark catchphrase?

01:04:19,956 --> 01:04:22,376

I'll give you a sec to think about it while I'll tell you about mine.

01:04:22,376 --> 01:04:22,889

So

01:04:22,889 --> 01:04:28,143

I was thinking about this and if I stepped into the squared circle and it's it's not a

character.

01:04:28,143 --> 01:04:28,674

It's Uncle Ben.

01:04:28,674 --> 01:04:30,044

It's just me right?

01:04:30,565 --> 01:04:35,738

I think my finisher is going to be some kind of like hard ass brutal submission move.

01:04:35,738 --> 01:04:37,790

Probably something old school like a Boston crab.

01:04:37,790 --> 01:04:40,371

Also that move sucks if you've ever been put in a Boston crab.

01:04:40,371 --> 01:04:41,142

It's awful.

01:04:41,142 --> 01:04:41,988

It's terrible.

01:04:41,988 --> 01:04:47,069

everyone would put you in it, especially if you had like brothers and sisters or cousins,

they'd all put you in it.

01:04:47,069 --> 01:04:47,570

man.

01:04:47,570 --> 01:04:50,852

I got crabbed on the trampoline very many times in my youth.

01:04:50,852 --> 01:04:52,033

Crabbed on the...

01:04:52,914 --> 01:04:54,976

I got crabbed on the trampoline.

01:04:54,976 --> 01:04:56,707

That's totally merch, dude.

01:04:56,707 --> 01:04:57,878

That rules.

01:04:57,878 --> 01:05:02,922

That might be the name of my solo album that I'm working on this year.

01:05:02,922 --> 01:05:04,084

Crabbed on the trampoline.

01:05:04,084 --> 01:05:06,045

So I think it's going to be a submission move.

01:05:06,045 --> 01:05:13,361

And like, as the person I'm laying this on is like struggling and writhing around in pain,

I'm giving them my catchphrase.

01:05:13,499 --> 01:05:14,644

Say uncle!

01:05:14,644 --> 01:05:15,437

Say uncle!

01:05:15,437 --> 01:05:17,634

It's good!

01:05:17,797 --> 01:05:18,745

It's good!

01:05:18,745 --> 01:05:25,029

I love how it's all on brand too and I can imagine you looking deep down the camera going

I'm gonna make you say uncle

01:05:25,029 --> 01:05:27,409

it.

01:05:27,409 --> 01:05:28,849

Oh my god

01:05:29,007 --> 01:05:29,718

I love that.

01:05:29,718 --> 01:05:31,210

So now what would mine be?

01:05:31,210 --> 01:05:38,464

I've thought about like overtime and this and that and like, you know, I think like we all

do, we put like our own characters and our own storylines and like, if I was this, what

01:05:38,464 --> 01:05:39,195

would it be?

01:05:39,195 --> 01:05:46,008

For me, my finisher would be like the way that Cactus Jack used to do the pile driver

called the Cactus Special.

01:05:46,008 --> 01:05:51,052

Tony Storm kind of does it the way now he did called the, she calls it the Storm Zero.

01:05:51,052 --> 01:05:55,935

And it's basically like, well, so that was what he did later on, but when he used

01:05:55,935 --> 01:06:00,479

When as cactus Jack, he used to not get the person like vertical like this and then put

him down.

01:06:00,479 --> 01:06:03,201

He used to just like drag them down.

01:06:03,201 --> 01:06:07,334

And to me, I was like, there's been three people I've seen do it really well.

01:06:07,334 --> 01:06:10,166

Cactus Jack, Sammy Callahan and Tony storm.

01:06:10,166 --> 01:06:12,908

And I'm like, that looks like it sucks.

01:06:13,969 --> 01:06:17,892

That one would have to be, would have to be mine.

01:06:18,414 --> 01:06:20,296

man, catchphrases.

01:06:20,296 --> 01:06:24,749

I'm never good with catchphrases, even for like the show, even for anything.

01:06:24,998 --> 01:06:26,628

I'm never good with them.

01:06:26,809 --> 01:06:31,132

and I feel like it'd be like, I feel like I'm going to say something cheesy, like lights

out right now.

01:06:31,132 --> 01:06:39,216

And then all of a sudden, like it's simple, but then I feel like I'm going to get off the,

the interview here and I'm to be like, this would have been so much better.

01:06:39,230 --> 01:06:41,307

So we'll say lights out for now.

01:06:41,307 --> 01:06:43,938

Cause that's also good if you're doing a pile driver.

01:06:44,230 --> 01:06:44,778

So.

01:06:44,778 --> 01:06:46,471

that's going to put them out for sure.

01:06:47,548 --> 01:06:48,654

I dig it.

01:06:49,108 --> 01:06:50,984

That's good question.

01:06:50,984 --> 01:06:51,724

my gosh.

01:06:51,724 --> 01:06:52,484

You can use that.

01:06:52,484 --> 01:06:54,429

I just get a percentage, you know?

01:06:54,723 --> 01:06:55,604

The Ben tax.

01:06:55,604 --> 01:07:00,904

uh Well, Ben, as always, it's always awesome talking to you.

01:07:00,904 --> 01:07:05,953

I'm glad we finally got to get the time to chat here, hit the record button, and do our

thing.

01:07:05,953 --> 01:07:07,178

So thank you so much.

01:07:07,178 --> 01:07:08,727

man, it's been a lot.

01:07:08,727 --> 01:07:14,578

I remember you were hitting me up earlier in the year, before the Macedon thing was coming

and it's like, could we wait a little while?

01:07:14,578 --> 01:07:16,881

I kind of got a lot on my plate I can't talk about.

01:07:16,881 --> 01:07:18,844

But just give me a week and you'll see what it is.

01:07:18,844 --> 01:07:27,534

I forget who I had said that I thought it was, like, knowing it's Mastodon, it's so just,

again, you deserve it, you know, and it's just so cool, man.

01:07:27,534 --> 01:07:28,715

appreciate that very much.

01:07:28,715 --> 01:07:36,881

had a lot of people because I had to keep tight lipped about it there for that short

period of time and I had a lot of people that were sending me guesses and a lot of people

01:07:36,881 --> 01:07:39,192

are like, dude, you're going on the road to ghost, aren't you?

01:07:39,192 --> 01:07:41,343

You're going to be an aimless ghoul, aren't you?

01:07:41,704 --> 01:07:42,884

Yeah.

01:07:43,505 --> 01:07:46,206

And I'm like, how do you know I already haven't?

01:07:46,739 --> 01:07:47,779

That's fair.

01:07:47,779 --> 01:07:48,619

That's fair.

01:07:48,619 --> 01:07:50,940

With Ghost you could get away with it, right?

01:07:53,361 --> 01:08:01,274

That's like when CM Punk didn't wrestle for a while and then he afterwards he went into

AEW but people still suspect that he was on the indies under a mask every now and again

01:08:01,274 --> 01:08:06,106

because there was a video of him from like a VFW where he was like where there were like

30 people there.

01:08:06,106 --> 01:08:10,090

There was just a guy in a mask and you know just randomly someone was recording.

01:08:10,090 --> 01:08:14,241

just this guy runs up hits a GTS a go to sleep and everyone's just like

01:08:14,241 --> 01:08:17,226

Hmm, doing the math here.

01:08:17,272 --> 01:08:18,914

yeah, it's not just it's a GTS.

01:08:18,914 --> 01:08:21,438

It's like, kind of looks like the way you'd it, dog.

01:08:21,575 --> 01:08:22,427

That's funny.

01:08:22,427 --> 01:08:23,138

That's awesome.

01:08:23,138 --> 01:08:24,810

I appreciate the patients very much, man.

01:08:24,810 --> 01:08:26,713

I know we've been trying to do this for a while.

01:08:27,312 --> 01:08:27,926

man, of course.

01:08:27,926 --> 01:08:28,873

Thank you, my friend.

01:08:28,873 --> 01:08:29,869

Always good talking to you.

01:08:29,869 --> 01:08:32,046

new music of your own coming for soon?

01:08:32,156 --> 01:08:32,697

You'll hear it.

01:08:32,697 --> 01:08:33,097

Yup.

01:08:33,097 --> 01:08:34,950

Trying to do a couple things with it.

01:08:34,950 --> 01:08:36,653

So I don't usually do a lot of videos.

01:08:36,653 --> 01:08:38,586

I'm trying to do more videos before releases.

01:08:38,586 --> 01:08:42,691

I'll tell you about something I'm working on off air too, because that's kind of cool.

01:08:42,691 --> 01:08:46,054

So, absolutely.