Josiah Williams (Wrestle And Flow) on Naomi's Entrance Theme, Taya Valkyrie's Theme, Creativity

It is so good to have you here on the show again with me.

2

00:00:14,108 --> 00:00:15,178

My name is John.

3

00:00:15,178 --> 00:00:24,711

am a wrestling entrance theme song composer and welcome as always to the ropes and riffs

podcast where we talk all about wrestling entrance themes with your favorite wrestlers,

4

00:00:24,711 --> 00:00:28,482

your favorite musicians and your favorite wrestling entrance theme composers.

5

00:00:28,482 --> 00:00:35,244

And today I'm to be speaking with the one and the only Josiah Williams, also known as

wrestling flow.

6

00:00:35,244 --> 00:00:37,708

You may know him from his time at NXT.

7

00:00:37,708 --> 00:00:44,123

You may know him from his work that he's done with such acts such as Naomi and so many

more.

8

00:00:44,123 --> 00:00:47,976

Naomi Trinity when she was in TNA, as well as Taya Valkyrie.

9

00:00:47,976 --> 00:00:53,431

And we talk about all of that, including an entrance scene that we worked on quite some

time ago too.

10

00:00:53,431 --> 00:00:55,753

We talk about a lot of different things on the show.

11

00:00:55,753 --> 00:01:06,291

We talk about how in this crazy world that we're in right now, you too can be a creator

and how you can start with just the basics and work your way up and how you should always

12

00:01:06,291 --> 00:01:07,660

just give it a try.

13

00:01:07,660 --> 00:01:15,839

I love doing this, I love doing entrance themes, but it hasn't always been where I've had

the gear that you see or hear on the show right now.

14

00:01:15,839 --> 00:01:19,393

I've started off with an iPhone and I still use an iPhone and all this different gear.

15

00:01:19,393 --> 00:01:29,143

So it's a really inspiring conversation with one of the most inspiring, awesome

individuals that I'm grateful to call a friend and I'm grateful to call a guest on our

16

00:01:29,143 --> 00:01:30,230

show here.

17

00:01:30,230 --> 00:01:34,392

If you'd like to make a PayPal donation, you can check the link in the description here.

18

00:01:34,392 --> 00:01:39,175

And if you donate $10 or more, I'll go ahead and shout you out on the show coming up as

well.

19

00:01:39,175 --> 00:01:42,917

And as always, I appreciate any of the donations that come through.

20

00:01:42,917 --> 00:01:46,699

really helps the show and helps us continue to grow to an even greater audience.

21

00:01:46,699 --> 00:01:54,183

And talking about audience, you guys have been great with doing all the subscriptions over

on all the different platforms like Apple podcasts and Spotify.

22

00:01:54,183 --> 00:01:59,744

But if you haven't subscribed yet, I'm just going to ask you to head over to Spotify,

Apple podcasts or YouTube.

23

00:01:59,744 --> 00:02:02,135

or wherever you're listening or watching the show.

24

00:02:02,135 --> 00:02:06,658

And just hit us with a subscribe, hit us with a follow, whatever that specific outlet

does.

25

00:02:06,658 --> 00:02:10,380

That was probably a ping with somebody saying, hey, I subscribed to the show.

26

00:02:10,380 --> 00:02:13,682

I hope it was, but if it wasn't, I hope they're having a lovely day as well.

27

00:02:13,682 --> 00:02:21,096

But also, if you're over on your favorite listening app like Apple Podcasts and Spotify,

go ahead and drop us a comment, drop us a rating.

28

00:02:21,096 --> 00:02:25,374

And if you leave us a rating here on the show as well, I'll go ahead and I'll read it out

on the next show.

29

00:02:25,374 --> 00:02:26,559

I love hearing from you guys.

30

00:02:26,559 --> 00:02:28,492

I love hearing who you might want on the show.

31

00:02:28,492 --> 00:02:34,787

Love hearing about the feedback that you've gotten from the show, hearing about all

different entrance themes, and just having a great old time.

32

00:02:34,787 --> 00:02:36,348

I have a great time talking to people.

33

00:02:36,348 --> 00:02:38,289

I have a great time hearing your feedback.

34

00:02:38,289 --> 00:02:44,134

And I hope you have a great time listening to this awesome interview with the one and only

Russell and Flo, Josiah Williams.

35

00:02:44,134 --> 00:02:44,974

Enjoy, guys.

36

00:02:45,287 --> 00:02:47,988

Ladies and gentlemen, you know him as Wrestle and Flow.

37

00:02:47,988 --> 00:02:50,780

You've seen him all over the place in all different promotions.

38

00:02:50,780 --> 00:02:52,711

You've heard his voice all over the place.

39

00:02:52,711 --> 00:02:55,793

He is such the personality that not even Disney can deny.

40

00:02:55,793 --> 00:02:58,724

As you know, my guest today is Josiah Williams.

41

00:02:58,724 --> 00:03:00,864

Thank you so much for joining me today, my friend.

42

00:03:00,864 --> 00:03:04,710

Yo, I am so glad that we could finally make this happen.

43

00:03:04,710 --> 00:03:08,916

We've been like sending these messages back and forth and just the timing and all of it.

44

00:03:08,916 --> 00:03:11,780

But I always believe that everything happens in the right time.

45

00:03:11,780 --> 00:03:14,317

So thank you for allowing me to even be here.

46

00:03:14,317 --> 00:03:15,078

Absolutely.

47

00:03:15,078 --> 00:03:22,443

And it's one of these things where, you know, even though we hadn't gotten to connect

before, even though we've been trying to line this all up, it's just the more time goes

48

00:03:22,443 --> 00:03:28,078

on, the more cool things you do, the more people you work with, the more we just get to

talk about on the show.

49

00:03:28,078 --> 00:03:38,446

And as somebody that has been in the entrance-themed game probably even longer than I've

been in a lot of ways, you've been able to work with lots of different promotions, lots of

50

00:03:38,446 --> 00:03:39,340

different talent.

51

00:03:39,340 --> 00:03:45,145

The cool thing that I've always loved about your music also is the fact that you don't

just do entrance themes for people.

52

00:03:45,145 --> 00:03:53,532

You also do what I would call more like tribute things to wrestlers as well, which is

something that I don't see a lot of people doing.

53

00:03:53,532 --> 00:04:02,169

You know, I see Montese you doing it, I see you doing it, but you guys are really the two

that don't just do entrance themes, but you also do tributes in a lot of different

54

00:04:02,169 --> 00:04:03,250

wrestlers too.

55

00:04:03,371 --> 00:04:04,172

Yeah, yeah.

56

00:04:04,172 --> 00:04:05,894

I think that's how I got my start.

57

00:04:05,894 --> 00:04:16,582

Outside of just doing all this, I make hip hop music, Christian hip hop music, and in

between those projects, I wanted to do something that would kind of just clear my head and

58

00:04:16,582 --> 00:04:21,366

get me out of album mode or whatever the specific project was that I was doing.

59

00:04:21,366 --> 00:04:29,191

And yeah, I just started trying to remix hip hop songs that would have a wrestling theme

to it.

60

00:04:29,191 --> 00:04:29,772

I tried that.

61

00:04:29,772 --> 00:04:31,037

It didn't really work out.

62

00:04:31,037 --> 00:04:35,021

then I tried like actually remixing the theme song itself.

63

00:04:35,021 --> 00:04:43,569

And yeah, I didn't approach it from the perspective of being a theme and something that

they would necessarily walk down the ramp to, but just like showing some love.

64

00:04:43,569 --> 00:04:53,819

know, if you grew up with hip hop and especially like mixed tape hip hop and just how Lil

Wayne like in the 2000s would just get somebody's song, TI or whoever, and just make a

65

00:04:53,819 --> 00:04:54,461

verse to it.

66

00:04:54,461 --> 00:04:56,061

It wasn't official, it was just fun.

67

00:04:56,061 --> 00:04:57,263

And I think

68

00:04:57,433 --> 00:05:03,168

wrestling, know, Megarann, Monteezy, like you said, there's a lot of people who were kind

of doing that.

69

00:05:03,168 --> 00:05:08,590

I just wanted to do it in a different way with like video elements and trying to do some

of that stuff too.

70

00:05:08,590 --> 00:05:10,573

So it's a fun time, man.

71

00:05:10,573 --> 00:05:11,484

I love it.

72

00:05:11,496 --> 00:05:18,380

And that's something too, is that you don't just do audio, and even over on your YouTube,

you're like it's an audio and visual experience.

73

00:05:18,380 --> 00:05:24,160

So you also understand how important the visuals are to the audio that you're putting out

too.

74

00:05:24,245 --> 00:05:27,037

Yeah, presentation, I mean, is everything.

75

00:05:27,037 --> 00:05:35,166

And especially in a world where everything is so fast paced and you're trying to give the

best product possible.

76

00:05:35,166 --> 00:05:43,526

felt like I had I had inspiration from smoke DZA in the beginning because he was releasing

these like mixed tapes around like WrestleMania time.

77

00:05:43,526 --> 00:05:47,429

And I'm like, man, what if I like what would be my version of that if I were to try to do

that?

78

00:05:47,429 --> 00:05:48,729

So I tried to just

79

00:05:48,729 --> 00:05:51,571

maybe package up six or seven music videos at once.

80

00:05:51,571 --> 00:05:56,174

And I was like, well, that's not gonna give me what I need, right?

81

00:05:56,174 --> 00:05:59,816

Like people are gonna watch those or maybe watch one and then they'll be done with it.

82

00:05:59,816 --> 00:06:07,772

But yeah, I figured adding the visual element, especially because I love storytelling and

I love being able to edit and try different things.

83

00:06:07,772 --> 00:06:12,829

And it wasn't even really that great in the beginning, but I just felt a connection to it

and a passion to it.

84

00:06:12,829 --> 00:06:19,967

It gives the talent also something to look at and like a little highlight reel or a

sizzle, you know, just to see what they've accomplished too.

85

00:06:20,176 --> 00:06:22,087

And that's the thing, that's where you start too.

86

00:06:22,087 --> 00:06:25,449

You were just like, I wasn't really the most experienced but I just started doing it.

87

00:06:25,449 --> 00:06:28,811

And I'm sure now you have way more experience with it too.

88

00:06:28,811 --> 00:06:36,025

And if anyone is going to your YouTube or anyone is seeing and hearing all the stuff

you've done, it's as pro as anything that anyone is putting out.

89

00:06:36,025 --> 00:06:39,168

And I think that's really important to a lot of people who talk about.

90

00:06:39,168 --> 00:06:41,249

Some people ask, how do you get into entrance themes?

91

00:06:41,249 --> 00:06:43,790

But more in general, how do you get into creating content?

92

00:06:43,790 --> 00:06:45,053

How do you get into creating music?

93

00:06:45,053 --> 00:06:47,128

How do you create videos, all that kind of stuff?

94

00:06:47,128 --> 00:06:49,299

You know, there's a lot of just trial and error.

95

00:06:49,299 --> 00:06:55,141

You can go to school for it, you can watch YouTube tutorials, but no matter what, you're

still gonna have a slightly different setup than other people.

96

00:06:55,141 --> 00:06:56,502

You may have different situations.

97

00:06:56,502 --> 00:07:04,266

You may have access to more gear, you may have access to less gear, less resources, but at

the end of the day, a lot of it really becomes trial and error and just sitting there and

98

00:07:04,266 --> 00:07:04,976

go, you know what?

99

00:07:04,976 --> 00:07:09,698

I'm gonna grind through all of those trials and tribulations and we're just gonna get

better at it.

100

00:07:09,698 --> 00:07:16,002

And then you're ending up seeing what works best for you and then making that work in the

best that you can too.

101

00:07:16,049 --> 00:07:17,269

Yeah.

102

00:07:17,269 --> 00:07:25,632

So I tell people all the time, these videos, like the Undisputed Era video was the first

one and that was in an apartment in Peoria, Illinois.

103

00:07:25,632 --> 00:07:35,946

And it was against like the like the little, what do you call those, the blinds, like the

sliding blinds ah with just like a random light and my camera on auto.

104

00:07:35,946 --> 00:07:41,917

Like I didn't know anything about, you know, ISO and aperture and all the camera settings

that make it what it's supposed to be.

105

00:07:41,917 --> 00:07:45,619

Like we just tried something and then I played around with some effects in Final Cut Pro.

106

00:07:45,619 --> 00:07:50,102

Like it was in no way anything professional.

107

00:07:50,102 --> 00:07:50,692

You know what mean?

108

00:07:50,692 --> 00:07:55,235

Like I probably did that and then went to go wash dishes immediately after before starting

to edit it.

109

00:07:55,235 --> 00:08:05,752

Like it's, it starts out as just an idea and I, and you know, especially at Disney now

with one of the areas that, the area that I work with is the Disney college program.

110

00:08:05,752 --> 00:08:07,693

And they asked, you know, what

111

00:08:07,696 --> 00:08:15,402

what are some tips and things that you would have for people who want to just start making

content even like at the park, at the parks and I'm saying use your phone and even just

112

00:08:15,402 --> 00:08:21,636

get like a cheap Amazon light that's like 15, 20 bucks and just see how much that little

light can change things.

113

00:08:21,636 --> 00:08:24,889

So, you know, at the end of the day, this is not homework.

114

00:08:24,889 --> 00:08:28,742

Nobody's going to grade it and it's not going to be on a record or anything.

115

00:08:28,742 --> 00:08:31,095

Like you're just trying stuff and if it works, it works.

116

00:08:31,095 --> 00:08:32,566

If it doesn't, you grow from it.

117

00:08:32,566 --> 00:08:33,356

So.

118

00:08:33,422 --> 00:08:34,673

I remember two things.

119

00:08:34,673 --> 00:08:38,676

One thing I heard early on in my career was that nobody cares about the gear you use.

120

00:08:38,676 --> 00:08:40,708

They care about what they see and what they hear.

121

00:08:40,708 --> 00:08:42,999

And it's so important too.

122

00:08:42,999 --> 00:08:52,186

you may have seen this as a meme or as on Twitter or X whatever, but Phineas, Billy

Eilish's brother, posts, know, everyone's like, why do you record in your bedroom?

123

00:08:52,186 --> 00:08:58,261

But I've also sat in million dollar studios where someone is figuring out why it doesn't

work and they just didn't plug in the aux cable.

124

00:08:58,261 --> 00:09:00,792

So, you know, it's totally true.

125

00:09:01,178 --> 00:09:07,318

And I remember when I was in college and I went to Guitar Center, not Guitar Center, Sam

Ash, because we were in Margate.

126

00:09:07,318 --> 00:09:12,898

And I remember that at that point I was trying to start getting on my own content and all

that.

127

00:09:12,898 --> 00:09:16,318

I was like, man, how much money am I going to have to put into all this?

128

00:09:16,318 --> 00:09:25,298

And the guy behind the counter was just like, look, look into lighting, look into natural

lighting, and get yourself a decent lighting system that doesn't have to break the bank.

129

00:09:25,298 --> 00:09:27,018

But you can literally do so much on your phone.

130

00:09:27,018 --> 00:09:30,848

And a lot of people don't understand that you can get expensive cameras.

131

00:09:30,848 --> 00:09:33,459

Sure, but you, like you said, you could use your iPhone.

132

00:09:33,459 --> 00:09:36,261

That's been kind of the case for the last 10 years of iPhone-ism.

133

00:09:36,261 --> 00:09:39,903

You can really get away getting good quality with that.

134

00:09:39,903 --> 00:09:43,674

And all you have to do is just make sure that your lighting is as strong as it can be.

135

00:09:43,674 --> 00:09:51,568

And then obviously over time, you upgrade based on what you want to do, but you can look

everywhere and you see professional videos done that say shot on an iPhone.

136

00:09:51,568 --> 00:09:52,848

And you're like, how do they do that?

137

00:09:52,848 --> 00:09:56,350

And you become a master of like those settings and different things.

138

00:09:56,350 --> 00:09:59,531

And I remember that when I started doing entrance themes,

139

00:09:59,531 --> 00:10:05,551

I had never even thought about doing entrance themes for, you know, until like 2019, maybe

2020.

140

00:10:05,551 --> 00:10:14,571

But before that, obviously I was such a fan of wrestling and I was starting to do like

covers and this was when NXT started to really take into bringing in Nakamura, some Bova

141

00:10:14,571 --> 00:10:15,770

Joa, those guys.

142

00:10:15,770 --> 00:10:21,471

And I was just like, I want to create a version that's kind of like a metal, orchestral

metal version of The Rising Sun.

143

00:10:21,471 --> 00:10:22,551

So I did that.

144

00:10:22,551 --> 00:10:27,251

I shot it in my studio, in my room, which anyone can obviously tell.

145

00:10:27,251 --> 00:10:28,469

And, you know.

146

00:10:28,469 --> 00:10:33,682

did a couple different takes, stitched it together, made the audio, and I thought it was

pretty good for what I had.

147

00:10:33,682 --> 00:10:41,447

And in that, I was able to meet Kevin from It Lives and Breathes, who's done it, Will

Ospreay's theme, we've gone on to work together, been able to meet just different people

148

00:10:41,447 --> 00:10:50,634

in the industry, and it's all just, the video did okay, the music did okay, but people are

still referencing it today, and it's just like, you just started by filming it and just

149

00:10:50,634 --> 00:10:54,237

figuring it out, and you never know where it's gonna take you.

150

00:10:54,389 --> 00:10:55,780

And that's the beauty of it.

151

00:10:55,780 --> 00:11:08,259

Like, especially for so many of us who legitimately just like started online at home,

trying anything to see if it would work and, seeing one, the connection that it makes with

152

00:11:08,259 --> 00:11:17,835

the audience that, you know, you're trying to reach to the, the impact that it has on the

talent that you're, that you're talking about and that you're playing for, you know what

153

00:11:17,835 --> 00:11:18,176

saying?

154

00:11:18,176 --> 00:11:20,892

Like it's, it's such a fulfilling.

155

00:11:20,892 --> 00:11:22,653

thing when you see it.

156

00:11:22,653 --> 00:11:32,207

And even if it doesn't reach that, you know, height, mean, for luckily for us and in many

other people's situations, it does turn into something and materializes into something.

157

00:11:32,207 --> 00:11:37,810

even just the satisfaction of you get that mix and you're like, man, this I'm proud of

this.

158

00:11:37,810 --> 00:11:42,243

Like, I don't know if anybody's gonna hear this, but there is just, it gives you

something.

159

00:11:42,243 --> 00:11:48,036

It's almost like when, you know, go into wrestling shows and you make that sign and

somebody like, hey, I like that sign.

160

00:11:48,036 --> 00:11:49,081

Like it's just,

161

00:11:49,485 --> 00:11:50,146

Well, thank you.

162

00:11:50,146 --> 00:11:51,726

It's just such a good feeling.

163

00:11:51,726 --> 00:11:55,852

And that's what I that's what I try to make with both the music and the video side.

164

00:11:55,852 --> 00:12:03,097

And then going back to what you said, too, of like, you start with something like the

phone, but and the investment that you make into your equipment.

165

00:12:03,097 --> 00:12:08,842

the goal, of course, is to be able to upgrade those things and hopefully to make that

money and to turn into something else.

166

00:12:08,842 --> 00:12:15,187

So it might start with the iPhone and then turn into a Sony or a Canon or whatever your

camera preference is.

167

00:12:15,187 --> 00:12:15,797

You know what mean?

168

00:12:15,797 --> 00:12:16,174

And

169

00:12:16,174 --> 00:12:22,453

Yeah, it's cool to see people, not just like us, but even just like illustrators and

stuff, be able to live that out.

170

00:12:22,453 --> 00:12:23,952

It's a special thing.

171

00:12:23,952 --> 00:12:25,772

What was that process like for you too?

172

00:12:25,772 --> 00:12:34,012

I know we've talked a bit about that creative process and you can kind of get to

experiment with a lot of different elements and what you have at your disposal.

173

00:12:34,012 --> 00:12:43,492

But for you, what was that turning point where you said, you know what, I need to look

into some different gear because you do a lot of different things in media and to be able

174

00:12:43,492 --> 00:12:49,092

to have access to those things gives you even more ability to work with other people, make

the content that you want to create.

175

00:12:49,092 --> 00:12:50,672

What was that turning point for you?

176

00:12:50,672 --> 00:12:53,944

Was it a specific project that you were working on or did you say, you know what,

177

00:12:53,944 --> 00:12:58,368

I want to kind go in this direction and in order to do that, this is where I now need to

get.

178

00:12:58,522 --> 00:13:06,762

Yeah, I don't even remember what microphone I had to start out with, but I know it was

garbage.

179

00:13:06,762 --> 00:13:08,282

I do know that.

180

00:13:08,342 --> 00:13:11,282

Like whatever it was, it produced sound.

181

00:13:11,282 --> 00:13:13,162

It just didn't produce good sound.

182

00:13:13,162 --> 00:13:22,022

And I can't see right now because I have a light in front of my face, but I'm sure you

might be using it looks like it the Shure like SM.

183

00:13:22,342 --> 00:13:25,222

I don't even remember what it's the Michael Jackson microphone.

184

00:13:25,922 --> 00:13:26,509

Yeah.

185

00:13:26,509 --> 00:13:27,842

version of that, yeah.

186

00:13:28,313 --> 00:13:35,413

There is like, somebody introduced me to that and I was like, okay, how am I gonna even

get that?

187

00:13:35,413 --> 00:13:39,973

And they gifted it to me and I'm like, okay, okay.

188

00:13:39,973 --> 00:13:47,593

So then I had to learn about like amplifying the sound and like what a cloud lifter is and

all these different things and it costs money, it did.

189

00:13:47,593 --> 00:13:53,224

But it was something that I knew and I believed that it would help me in the future.

190

00:13:53,224 --> 00:13:55,237

I had a Sony.

191

00:13:55,237 --> 00:14:03,931

A6300, which is a good photo camera, does pretty well with video, but like professionally,

it wasn't gonna get me everything that I needed.

192

00:14:03,931 --> 00:14:14,983

So after, I think this was after getting, yeah, after getting released from WWE, I started

working with Aleister Black, Malachi Black, Tommy N, whatever you prefer to call him.

193

00:14:14,983 --> 00:14:19,227

he like, he's like, yeah, we're gonna, we're gonna block in and just make a ton.

194

00:14:19,227 --> 00:14:23,059

of content and I knew that if we were gonna do this that it was time for an upgrade.

195

00:14:23,059 --> 00:14:28,122

So I had to, you know, make that decision and that camera was a hefty price tag.

196

00:14:28,122 --> 00:14:32,175

But I mean, you know what you need to get where you wanna be.

197

00:14:32,175 --> 00:14:42,490

And I believe that putting yourself in a situation to then generate the income or whatever

it is that you need to do to recoup, I felt like it was gonna work out.

198

00:14:42,490 --> 00:14:43,270

So.

199

00:14:43,344 --> 00:14:46,587

Am I going to go out and get a $10,000 cinema camera right now?

200

00:14:46,587 --> 00:14:48,188

Absolutely not.

201

00:14:48,288 --> 00:14:49,209

No.

202

00:14:49,409 --> 00:14:55,794

Can I afford some good $200 lights to make that great and like a smoke machine or

something?

203

00:14:55,794 --> 00:14:56,375

Yeah.

204

00:14:56,375 --> 00:15:05,792

So like you make, you make the changes that make the most sense and you make the changes

in the upgrades that are going to help the people, like the clients that you serve or like

205

00:15:05,792 --> 00:15:08,204

the people that you want to work with too.

206

00:15:08,595 --> 00:15:09,326

Of course, yeah.

207

00:15:09,326 --> 00:15:18,343

And you brought up working with Malachi Black and you brought up working with all the

stuff that he's doing and was doing and just all the things from where he is now and where

208

00:15:18,343 --> 00:15:18,963

he was.

209

00:15:18,963 --> 00:15:20,835

And, you know, we can talk rumors.

210

00:15:20,835 --> 00:15:22,756

I have no idea about anything.

211

00:15:22,756 --> 00:15:28,080

you know, but I do hope to see him back where he should be, which is on TV, because he is

so good.

212

00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:29,020

Yes.

213

00:15:31,102 --> 00:15:33,293

And how was it working with Malachi Black?

214

00:15:33,293 --> 00:15:34,934

Because he does the Muay Thai.

215

00:15:34,934 --> 00:15:35,885

He does all the videos.

216

00:15:35,885 --> 00:15:37,666

He does the clothing company.

217

00:15:37,666 --> 00:15:49,477

And you know, as dark of a character as he portrays on TV, in every interview, he just

seems like the coolest, most humble guy, just literally wants to just be a good person

218

00:15:49,477 --> 00:15:54,606

that can just kick you as hard as humanly possible and make you feel it.

219

00:15:54,606 --> 00:15:55,562

So.

220

00:15:55,787 --> 00:15:57,627

all of those things are true.

221

00:15:57,767 --> 00:16:06,807

So we started working while he was preparing for the comeback at WWE in 2021.

222

00:16:07,067 --> 00:16:10,667

No, yeah, like 2020, 2021 around that time.

223

00:16:10,667 --> 00:16:14,867

And he had some ideas that he wanted to pitch to Vince.

224

00:16:14,867 --> 00:16:23,159

So we just spent a few days at the Performance Center, just recording like matches and

promos and just trying stuff.

225

00:16:23,159 --> 00:16:29,139

This was also at the same time, like shortly before that, know, Zelina Vega left and came

back.

226

00:16:29,379 --> 00:16:37,439

I was like, it's so weird that nobody is recording this process of like, she's getting

ready to make this huge comeback.

227

00:16:37,439 --> 00:16:39,739

Why isn't there like a documentary team or anything like that?

228

00:16:39,739 --> 00:16:44,179

So I just started kind of getting to know both of them and filming them.

229

00:16:44,759 --> 00:16:49,279

yeah, it just turned into, it turned into a really cool process.

230

00:16:49,279 --> 00:16:52,616

And when, you know, when we both were on the other side, he was like, look,

231

00:16:52,616 --> 00:16:54,990

We, you know, I don't know where I'm going to go next.

232

00:16:54,990 --> 00:16:58,852

but I want to be able to prepare for that and I want to have content.

233

00:16:58,852 --> 00:17:03,138

So we, like you said, Muay Thai wrestling training.

234

00:17:03,138 --> 00:17:05,980

we did like some stuff with his clothing line, black mass.

235

00:17:05,980 --> 00:17:10,780

We tried, like some cooking content, podcasts stuff, music reviews.

236

00:17:10,780 --> 00:17:14,493

Like he had all these ideas and he's like, I don't know which ones we're going to keep.

237

00:17:14,493 --> 00:17:19,388

We did a short film that I didn't film, but I was like one of the characters in.

238

00:17:19,388 --> 00:17:21,490

He's he's so, he's a photographer.

239

00:17:21,490 --> 00:17:25,092

He's so creative and he's just like, let's just see what we can do.

240

00:17:25,092 --> 00:17:36,686

And so even like last week we were filming all these like training videos, like vlog style

stuff that I'm sure he'll be able to share at some point, like there's so much in his mind

241

00:17:36,686 --> 00:17:41,987

and it's kind of a reminder of like the stuff that I thought about, like for wrestling

flow, I want to be able to do all the stuff.

242

00:17:41,987 --> 00:17:42,928

How do I get there?

243

00:17:42,928 --> 00:17:45,871

And I'm thankful for both.

244

00:17:45,871 --> 00:17:52,423

him and Zelina for allowing me to kind of just be a little part of their content journey

and just, you know, supplying what they need.

245

00:17:52,423 --> 00:17:58,255

And it's amazing to work with them because everybody puts on a character, everybody

showcases what they want to showcase.

246

00:17:58,255 --> 00:18:01,626

As Disney would say on stage or as WW would say in the ring.

247

00:18:01,626 --> 00:18:08,370

But, you know, the superstars that they are doesn't even speak to the human beings that

they are.

248

00:18:08,370 --> 00:18:09,714

And so it's cool to see.

249

00:18:09,714 --> 00:18:17,044

And if I remember correctly too, I remember that you were also in the videos before

Malachi debuted in AEW.

250

00:18:17,044 --> 00:18:20,348

I forget if you were a doctor, but you were something in one of them.

251

00:18:20,489 --> 00:18:21,430

Yeah.

252

00:18:23,057 --> 00:18:24,496

was a really cool time.

253

00:18:24,496 --> 00:18:30,000

I got a message from him saying, I have this idea for a short film that I want to do.

254

00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:31,800

Would you be interested in it?

255

00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:44,937

And I think I told him no at first because, you know, I walk this very thin line of like,

who am I as both Josiah as the Christian hip hop artist, as the wrestling guy, like, OK,

256

00:18:44,937 --> 00:18:45,937

what do I want to do?

257

00:18:45,937 --> 00:18:49,212

And he just told me, like, no matter what I do,

258

00:18:49,212 --> 00:18:51,372

I will always protect you through it.

259

00:18:51,372 --> 00:18:53,932

I'm not gonna have you say anything that you don't wanna say.

260

00:18:53,932 --> 00:19:01,272

I'm not gonna have you wearing anything you don't wanna wear, even with all the black mask

stuff.

261

00:19:01,272 --> 00:19:07,172

We have very opposite beliefs, but he's like, I just want you to be able to grow in your

art.

262

00:19:07,172 --> 00:19:09,552

And of course I need the content.

263

00:19:10,072 --> 00:19:11,712

And so I think it's pretty cool.

264

00:19:11,712 --> 00:19:15,823

I always tell people I get to be the light in his darkness.

265

00:19:15,823 --> 00:19:19,476

were very different human beings, but similar interests.

266

00:19:19,476 --> 00:19:26,338

yeah, so that was just another cool example of like, we just tried something and it

really, really worked.

267

00:19:26,338 --> 00:19:35,330

And it was able to translate into like the, you know, how there are certain series in

movies where there's like a spinoff or like, you know, an alternate universe.

268

00:19:35,330 --> 00:19:41,012

And so when Buddy Matthews was able to do his thing, like that character had a little

prequel moment.

269

00:19:41,012 --> 00:19:41,615

So.

270

00:19:41,615 --> 00:19:45,578

There's a lot of cool stuff that came out of it and I'm just excited to create.

271

00:19:45,711 --> 00:19:54,148

Yeah, and I think you touch on something too that a lot of us as creators start to speak

to, and especially in wrestling too, because I've talked to Megarand about this, because

272

00:19:54,148 --> 00:19:57,880

Megarand does also content for kids and does stuff for wrestling.

273

00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:01,304

I run a music school and I'm in the podcasting industry too.

274

00:20:01,304 --> 00:20:10,441

And so it's kind of like, you get to this point where you have these different buckets

that you fill in your life and you want to really be true to all of them, but you're kind

275

00:20:10,441 --> 00:20:11,972

of like how far...

276

00:20:11,972 --> 00:20:16,992

Do I go into all those to where one thing doesn't negatively affect something else?

277

00:20:16,992 --> 00:20:23,672

know, especially when you work with kids or as you said, you have, you know, a lot of

faith that then can do a lot of different things.

278

00:20:23,672 --> 00:20:32,952

You know, it's like where, at what point do you kind of have to put a stop gap on it and

say, well, that may not impact this other thing in the way that I want it to.

279

00:20:32,952 --> 00:20:38,344

But the fact that, you know, I don't even have to call him, but the fact that Malachi,

I'll keep calling him.

280

00:20:38,344 --> 00:20:44,244

because it's my favorite version, because Malachi was so cool with that and just wanted to

make sure that you were taken care of.

281

00:20:44,244 --> 00:20:51,403

That's the most important thing, is let's be creative, let's have a good time, let's do

things and let's work together, but let's be respectful to each other too.

282

00:20:51,403 --> 00:20:52,544

That's super cool.

283

00:20:52,590 --> 00:20:53,451

Yeah, yeah.

284

00:20:53,451 --> 00:21:07,054

And I think Megaran is a really perfect example of someone who can do a little bit of it

all, from gaming to music to even just like the stage presence that he has, video content,

285

00:21:07,054 --> 00:21:07,826

streaming.

286

00:21:07,826 --> 00:21:15,953

And I like to think that he is a perfect way of showcasing, like you can be who you are no

matter where you go.

287

00:21:15,953 --> 00:21:17,348

And that's something that

288

00:21:17,348 --> 00:21:26,984

I take to heart and which is why I look up to him a lot because like in all of these

different spaces, yes, I am Josiah, but like I have a different role to play and I don't

289

00:21:26,984 --> 00:21:30,336

want to like you said, you know, mess up anything because I do this.

290

00:21:30,336 --> 00:21:32,427

I don't want it to negatively affect that.

291

00:21:32,427 --> 00:21:41,953

Everyone knows like my, had two goals, WWE and Sesame Street and somehow some way that I

want that all to work together.

292

00:21:41,953 --> 00:21:43,321

And so yeah, I.

293

00:21:43,321 --> 00:21:53,412

I like to think of these creative endeavors and things as I want to be able to grow in all

of them and do it in a way that's cool for everyone.

294

00:21:53,519 --> 00:21:55,250

And I think you've continued to do that too.

295

00:21:55,250 --> 00:21:58,450

And I mean, you have so many themes that, you know, you've had your name on it.

296

00:21:58,450 --> 00:22:04,425

One of the ones that always comes to mind first when I think of you is Taya Valkyrie's

theme, right?

297

00:22:04,425 --> 00:22:08,438

And obviously we'll talk about Jace O'Sai is the one that we worked on together too.

298

00:22:08,438 --> 00:22:16,022

But Taya Valkyrie's theme was she left WWE as Frankie Monet, which I don't I don't know.

299

00:22:16,022 --> 00:22:21,086

But when she came back as Taya Valkyrie, I was always such a fan of her and Lucha

Underground and...

300

00:22:21,086 --> 00:22:26,240

No, again, anytime I get to shout out Lucha Underground in this show, I will, because I'm

just like, that was awesome.

301

00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:36,108

And then to see her come back on Zicky Dice's show and then show up in AEW and see the

music that you had worked on for her, it was such a different vibe than I think a lot of

302

00:22:36,108 --> 00:22:37,539

people had heard previously.

303

00:22:37,539 --> 00:22:45,715

And Frankie Monet, obviously, was a different character, but even coming from like Lucha

Underground and just to see and hear the lyrics that you wrote and the music that you

304

00:22:45,715 --> 00:22:48,583

wrote, kind of a little bit dubstep, hip hop, all those things.

305

00:22:48,583 --> 00:22:54,605

What was the conversation with Taya about this is the theme that I'm putting together for

you?

306

00:22:54,605 --> 00:23:05,849

Because I think one thing that I talked to different people in the theme writing space

about is I've always considered myself a composer from the fact of I will, if you ask me

307

00:23:05,849 --> 00:23:10,357

to sit down and write something, mostly it's going to be a metal song or like a melodic

hardcore punk song.

308

00:23:10,357 --> 00:23:12,421

Like that's kind of a style that sits well with me.

309

00:23:12,421 --> 00:23:15,171

But a lot of the times the composer I'm like, you need a jazz track.

310

00:23:15,171 --> 00:23:15,621

I'll do that.

311

00:23:15,621 --> 00:23:16,572

You need an orchestra track.

312

00:23:16,572 --> 00:23:17,382

I'll do that.

313

00:23:17,382 --> 00:23:18,192

But.

314

00:23:18,512 --> 00:23:24,687

You know, I feel like you have such a unique sound as wrestling flow that a lot of people

may come to you and be like, all right, cool.

315

00:23:24,687 --> 00:23:28,369

Taya wants this, but here's the sound that I'm going to portray.

316

00:23:28,369 --> 00:23:32,633

But ultimately at the end of the day, it is still what wrestling flow is.

317

00:23:32,633 --> 00:23:35,224

What was some of the process of working with Taya on that?

318

00:23:35,489 --> 00:23:48,603

So, she came to me and said that obviously she wanted to do a track and, coming out of the

NXT situation, we filmed a music video with her and the, artists who recorded her NXT

319

00:23:48,603 --> 00:23:48,863

track.

320

00:23:48,863 --> 00:23:53,914

I don't know if that, I don't think that music video ever came out, but it was just going

to be something for fun.

321

00:23:53,916 --> 00:23:59,627

and I remember sitting there thinking like, okay, if we're going to, if we're going to try

to do something,

322

00:23:59,627 --> 00:24:02,260

How can we live back up to that height?

323

00:24:02,260 --> 00:24:05,784

Cause it was the cool music video from what I remember filming at the performance center.

324

00:24:05,784 --> 00:24:12,331

And she said that she just wanted to take things like to the next level and for it to be

something that people really connected with.

325

00:24:12,331 --> 00:24:23,200

And so I thought about like just, you know, revving the engine a little bit of like, okay,

so how can we like right from the jump, like give people one that sound that's immediately

326

00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:25,544

recognizable, but also like

327

00:24:25,544 --> 00:24:29,918

I want the song to feel like it's also taking you to the next level.

328

00:24:29,918 --> 00:24:35,542

You, the talent walking to the ring and you, the audience of like, okay, what are we

getting ready to see?

329

00:24:35,542 --> 00:24:49,315

so playing around with, like you said, the hip hop, the dubstep a little bit, like that

kind of like electro side, but also incorporating the drive, the literal like vehicular

330

00:24:49,315 --> 00:24:50,376

sounds and everything.

331

00:24:50,376 --> 00:24:52,639

Like I wanted to play off of that.

332

00:24:52,815 --> 00:24:57,949

And so it was also her idea to do the music video and like she had the brain for it.

333

00:24:57,949 --> 00:25:03,101

She said, I just want you to do your thing and I want people to visually see us like

taking off.

334

00:25:03,101 --> 00:25:05,523

um And it was so fun.

335

00:25:05,523 --> 00:25:06,699

I don't even remember.

336

00:25:06,699 --> 00:25:11,751

I know Johnny was in some of the shots like that we filmed.

337

00:25:11,751 --> 00:25:12,992

I have to go back and look.

338

00:25:12,992 --> 00:25:14,852

Yeah.

339

00:25:14,852 --> 00:25:18,092

But it was just such, it was such a cool time.

340

00:25:18,092 --> 00:25:21,954

And she said, this is what I want, but I want you to have your creative freedom as well.

341

00:25:21,954 --> 00:25:26,516

And I trust that, you you're gonna give me what I'm looking for.

342

00:25:26,516 --> 00:25:29,277

And we were able to collaborate through the whole process.

343

00:25:29,277 --> 00:25:32,519

Even in the music video, she's like, there's little things that I want you to do.

344

00:25:32,519 --> 00:25:35,360

If you stand here, then I'll be able to move like this.

345

00:25:35,360 --> 00:25:38,721

Like she saw it in every aspect.

346

00:25:38,721 --> 00:25:41,163

And you don't always get that from people.

347

00:25:41,163 --> 00:25:44,618

Sometimes people are just like, I want a song that sounds like kingdom.

348

00:25:44,618 --> 00:25:46,809

You know, like I want that downstate track.

349

00:25:46,809 --> 00:25:49,735

I'm like, okay, but that's kingdom works because it's Cody.

350

00:25:49,735 --> 00:25:50,576

You know what I mean?

351

00:25:50,576 --> 00:25:51,497

Cause it's downstate.

352

00:25:51,497 --> 00:25:54,521

Like you, you have to find your own thing.

353

00:25:54,521 --> 00:25:58,338

And she does and did a phenomenal job of like, this is my thing.

354

00:25:58,338 --> 00:25:59,430

And this is what I want.

355

00:25:59,430 --> 00:26:01,542

And it's trust you to bring it to life a little bit.

356

00:26:01,542 --> 00:26:08,825

And it's so funny too, because you bring up Downstate and I'm grateful to call you and

Downstate friends at this point in our careers also.

357

00:26:08,825 --> 00:26:12,426

And I talk to you guys all the time about what goes into an entrance theme.

358

00:26:12,426 --> 00:26:16,148

And like I was saying, I kind come at these from a little bit of a different perspective.

359

00:26:16,148 --> 00:26:19,209

And I've always felt like I strayed away from lyrics.

360

00:26:19,209 --> 00:26:24,471

First off, because even though I have this deep voice that everyone is hearing now, I am

not a singer to any capacity.

361

00:26:24,471 --> 00:26:26,754

So I always bring somebody in and...

362

00:26:26,754 --> 00:26:31,606

for many of you who have heard me attempt to rap, it's an attempt, that's it, I won't even

use the word rap.

363

00:26:31,606 --> 00:26:34,588

So like, you know, I bring in people that are really good at that stuff.

364

00:26:34,588 --> 00:26:39,140

And for me, I was always just like, you know, a lot of songs don't need lyrics.

365

00:26:39,140 --> 00:26:48,405

And my argument was, and kind of still is, you know, it's gonna get in the way of the,

like if you're on streaming, it's gonna get in the way of the announcers, it's gonna get

366

00:26:48,405 --> 00:26:49,416

away with things like that.

367

00:26:49,416 --> 00:26:52,415

But then I hear like what you guys are able to do.

368

00:26:52,415 --> 00:26:58,040

so much in the Downstate tracks, in your tracks, in the Taya track, in the Trinity track,

in Jase's track.

369

00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:01,362

And I'm just like, man, you know, I need to not do that.

370

00:27:01,362 --> 00:27:06,826

Like I need to really focus in on that because the lyrics can really do a lot when it

comes to telling a great story.

371

00:27:06,826 --> 00:27:12,679

And I feel like, you know, you can tell a story of where someone has gone in the case of

Taya's theme.

372

00:27:12,679 --> 00:27:15,521

You're not so much painting this giant picture of her whole career.

373

00:27:15,521 --> 00:27:17,962

You're just like explaining who the character is.

374

00:27:17,962 --> 00:27:19,123

And I think that

375

00:27:19,123 --> 00:27:29,507

Lyrically, it's more important than ever now actually in the industry to be able to have a

theme that can really describe where someone is coming from, not just from the music side,

376

00:27:29,507 --> 00:27:31,528

but also from what the lyrics are trying to convey.

377

00:27:31,528 --> 00:27:38,540

And most people know that when you're listening to music, a lot of what you're hearing is

in the vocals too, and lot of what you resonate with as humans is in the vocals.

378

00:27:38,540 --> 00:27:41,020

So yeah, I think you knocked that one out for sure.

379

00:27:41,020 --> 00:27:41,950

Thank you, man.

380

00:27:41,950 --> 00:27:46,772

Yeah, it's a it's always really, really, really cool to tell that story.

381

00:27:46,772 --> 00:27:47,151

Sorry.

382

00:27:47,151 --> 00:27:55,515

And I think with wrestling flow, that was kind of my intention to like if you've never

seen wrestling, I want you to be able by the end of this one minute video or two minute,

383

00:27:55,515 --> 00:28:03,490

whatever it is, to at least have a basic one on one level understanding of who this person

could be or who they once were, you know, whatever it is.

384

00:28:03,490 --> 00:28:05,431

So I tried to do that same thing with Tyra.

385

00:28:05,431 --> 00:28:06,771

Like if it's.

386

00:28:06,855 --> 00:28:16,496

If somebody's watching and they don't know who you are or they don't know what this

version of your character is, I want them to have a good understanding of that by the time

387

00:28:16,496 --> 00:28:17,938

they're done with the track.

388

00:28:17,948 --> 00:28:18,988

Yeah, I agree with that.

389

00:28:18,988 --> 00:28:23,580

And I think if you think of themes over time, earlier themes didn't always have to have

lyrics.

390

00:28:23,580 --> 00:28:32,485

But nowadays, think because there's so many wrestlers and there's so many intricate

stories, being able to have more lyrically driven themes gives you the ability to really

391

00:28:32,485 --> 00:28:33,826

separate people's careers.

392

00:28:33,826 --> 00:28:41,741

Because as you said, you can go ahead and dive into this is where you were, this is where

you are, or you can just be a full descriptor of who this character is.

393

00:28:41,741 --> 00:28:45,827

And no one is an even bigger embodiment of that.

394

00:28:45,827 --> 00:28:49,529

than Trinity Naomi now who just wrestled Jade Cargill.

395

00:28:49,529 --> 00:28:50,329

Naomi's great.

396

00:28:50,329 --> 00:28:52,270

Naomi's always been great.

397

00:28:52,270 --> 00:28:56,631

you know, I'm just so happy number one that she's getting her flowers now.

398

00:28:56,631 --> 00:28:57,941

But I've said that many times over the years.

399

00:28:57,941 --> 00:29:02,393

Like there are a lot of times where people underrate how good Naomi actually is.

400

00:29:02,393 --> 00:29:05,033

And then she does all the things that everyone knows she could do.

401

00:29:05,033 --> 00:29:06,864

And then people are like, Naomi's actually really good.

402

00:29:06,864 --> 00:29:10,265

And I'm sitting here like, yeah, she is.

403

00:29:10,265 --> 00:29:12,635

And she has been, she didn't just get good.

404

00:29:12,635 --> 00:29:13,956

She's been good.

405

00:29:13,956 --> 00:29:14,776

And

406

00:29:14,950 --> 00:29:21,285

You know, for me, it was cool to see her move out of WWE for a little bit, do some stuff

over in TNA.

407

00:29:21,285 --> 00:29:23,727

And you wrote that awesome theme for her too.

408

00:29:23,727 --> 00:29:28,109

With Naomi, same question as with Taya Valkyrie, how did that come about?

409

00:29:28,109 --> 00:29:34,723

And then in terms of how she wanted to have her song, what was some of the thought process

between you and her on rocking on that one?

410

00:29:34,806 --> 00:29:37,209

Yeah, a bit more collaborative.

411

00:29:37,209 --> 00:29:40,372

She came to me and said, I have this idea.

412

00:29:40,372 --> 00:29:44,634

think she even said that she wanted to do some vocals for it from the beginning.

413

00:29:44,634 --> 00:29:49,917

I want to be on this and I want to be a part of writing whatever we're going to do.

414

00:29:49,917 --> 00:29:54,570

She said she wanted that kind of like Jersey club, that Lil Uzi Vert song.

415

00:29:54,570 --> 00:29:57,163

can't think of what it's called right now, but it was super popular at the time.

416

00:29:57,163 --> 00:29:59,264

And she's like, I want that sound and I want

417

00:29:59,264 --> 00:30:04,464

because nobody in wrestling at that point had a beat that was very similar to that.

418

00:30:04,964 --> 00:30:10,164

But she wanted something that was like an evolution of the glow as well.

419

00:30:10,164 --> 00:30:12,124

So I'm like, all right, we can do that.

420

00:30:12,124 --> 00:30:13,724

That's pretty easy.

421

00:30:14,064 --> 00:30:23,324

And that's the first time that I think outside of Lio Rush that I've ever been in a studio

setting or like in the process with the talent.

422

00:30:23,324 --> 00:30:28,861

And so we sat there and we came up with some ad libs and some fun little things and

423

00:30:28,861 --> 00:30:30,501

I gave her a little preview of my verse.

424

00:30:30,501 --> 00:30:33,913

said, this is what I'm going to do, but I want you to accent it.

425

00:30:33,913 --> 00:30:40,455

she knew that she wanted to be able to spell her name and for the crowd to be able to pick

up on that.

426

00:30:40,455 --> 00:30:43,686

think she also choreographed like to the name as well.

427

00:30:43,686 --> 00:30:47,817

like, once again, it's so crazy to see how people are like this.

428

00:30:47,817 --> 00:30:49,357

I know this is going to work.

429

00:30:49,357 --> 00:30:51,799

I just need you to add some lyrics.

430

00:30:51,799 --> 00:30:54,715

Like that's all I needed in this situation.

431

00:30:54,715 --> 00:30:55,946

And it was amazing.

432

00:30:55,946 --> 00:31:07,697

It's amazing, especially at that point in her life where, you know, when you go through

something and you're looking to find that joy again, and you're just trying to get to the

433

00:31:07,697 --> 00:31:20,894

other side of it, to be able to be a part of that and to help bring that to life while

also being the light that someone needs, there's no greater joy than

434

00:31:20,894 --> 00:31:31,590

seeing that debut or that return and in her case, debut, TNA and just the pure love and

passion that came when she made that entrance.

435

00:31:31,590 --> 00:31:34,003

It was so, so, so cool.

436

00:31:34,003 --> 00:31:36,074

And so I'll always be thankful to her.

437

00:31:36,074 --> 00:31:39,106

We've made, this is the third song that I've done for her.

438

00:31:39,106 --> 00:31:45,309

But, you know, I always love telling her story and I'll tell it as many times as I need

to.

439

00:31:45,584 --> 00:31:55,241

Yeah, and it deserves to be told too, you know, and I think that with someone who is such

a veteran in Naomi Trinity, we'll use Naomi now because of where we are in this timeline,

440

00:31:55,241 --> 00:31:58,052

but with her, she's gone through so much.

441

00:31:58,052 --> 00:32:00,413

She's been part of the industry for so long.

442

00:32:00,413 --> 00:32:06,987

And I think that when you have that kind of tenure in one company, a lot of people don't

expect you to do something else.

443

00:32:06,987 --> 00:32:08,148

You know, you can think of everyone.

444

00:32:08,148 --> 00:32:11,880

You could think of Mercedes Monet, Sasha Banks, you know, you can think of Trinity.

445

00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:13,824

You can think of all these different people who...

446

00:32:13,824 --> 00:32:18,027

end up trying to be with one company for so long.

447

00:32:18,027 --> 00:32:21,148

And sometimes you have to leave to explore that other part.

448

00:32:21,148 --> 00:32:31,895

And with Trinity, I don't think that she ultimately needed to go somewhere else to get

better, but I do think that when she left, she was able to spread those wings a little bit

449

00:32:31,895 --> 00:32:32,335

more.

450

00:32:32,335 --> 00:32:36,718

And like you said, showcase, hey, I'm not just good here, I'm good wherever I go.

451

00:32:36,718 --> 00:32:40,522

And I think coming back into WWE, it really helped showcase.

452

00:32:40,522 --> 00:32:41,542

even more of who she is.

453

00:32:41,542 --> 00:32:46,084

And like you said, she's somebody that also mixes the visual with the aural.

454

00:32:46,084 --> 00:32:51,896

And so she knows, okay, cool, what I'm gonna do for my entrance, the music has to hit with

that.

455

00:32:51,896 --> 00:33:00,820

And you have a lot of talent who may just want a really cool theme, which is fine, but

then you have a lot of other talent too who may have done TV before, who may be in

456

00:33:00,820 --> 00:33:05,575

elements where they know that side of production, where they're like, all right, cool,

here's exactly what I'm gonna do.

457

00:33:05,575 --> 00:33:11,112

Here's the gear I'm gonna wear in her case, being able to have all the glow stuff that she

does, did all that kind of stuff.

458

00:33:11,112 --> 00:33:13,124

You know, she knows what she's going for.

459

00:33:13,124 --> 00:33:14,555

She knows what she needs.

460

00:33:14,555 --> 00:33:18,339

And it's really cool when she can articulate that to you and be like, all right, cool.

461

00:33:18,339 --> 00:33:21,812

We're gonna have the slow part of my name here, and then it's gonna speed up.

462

00:33:21,812 --> 00:33:23,583

It's gonna rev up, and then we're into it.

463

00:33:23,583 --> 00:33:25,805

And the rest is history.

464

00:33:25,805 --> 00:33:26,990

So I love that.

465

00:33:26,990 --> 00:33:27,962

I love it too.

466

00:33:27,962 --> 00:33:31,720

And I'm just, I'm so happy for like, Trin, we love you.

467

00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:32,931

Phenomenal.

468

00:33:33,009 --> 00:33:33,789

Absolutely.

469

00:33:33,789 --> 00:33:38,709

And then we worked on a theme a while ago for Jso Say, and I'm going to keep getting his

name wrong.

470

00:33:38,709 --> 00:33:41,869

I'm pronounce it a bunch of different times, a bunch of different ways.

471

00:33:41,909 --> 00:33:49,949

you know, with that theme, that was one that when I sent it to you, you were just like,

this is really cool, but it's not something I've done before.

472

00:33:49,949 --> 00:33:53,109

And I was like, yeah, it's not a style I've done before either.

473

00:33:53,389 --> 00:33:56,649

It's a style, I guess, called grime from the UK.

474

00:33:56,749 --> 00:34:01,689

And it's a cool kind of blend of different styles using different instruments.

475

00:34:01,841 --> 00:34:05,021

For me, when I sent it to you, I'm just like Josiah can do anything.

476

00:34:05,021 --> 00:34:07,341

Okay, he's going to knock it out of the park as he did.

477

00:34:07,341 --> 00:34:13,201

But when I wrote it, I was just like, okay, I want to make sure that there's a beat.

478

00:34:13,201 --> 00:34:18,501

want to make sure that it's got a little bit of this glitchy kind of feel, but it's a

little bit slower paced too.

479

00:34:18,501 --> 00:34:22,321

So it's fast while it's slow, but there's all these other instruments going on.

480

00:34:22,321 --> 00:34:25,141

And then you were able to layer in that ready for war.

481

00:34:25,141 --> 00:34:26,201

And I'm just like, it's perfect.

482

00:34:26,201 --> 00:34:27,581

It's exactly what it is.

483

00:34:27,581 --> 00:34:30,034

So the gang vocals did very, very well.

484

00:34:30,034 --> 00:34:36,900

For you, I'd love to hear a little bit from you about, you know, because this is kind of

like us talking about, we workshopped this one together.

485

00:34:36,900 --> 00:34:42,925

How was it when I sent you that one and you were just like, what is this theme that we're

doing?

486

00:34:42,925 --> 00:34:44,346

Don't know.

487

00:34:44,483 --> 00:34:45,773

That's exactly what it was.

488

00:34:45,773 --> 00:34:47,885

That's the word for it.

489

00:34:47,885 --> 00:34:57,941

Yeah, it's different when I'm watching any of the shows and I see somebody that I'm like,

man, I want to create something based off of this person.

490

00:34:57,941 --> 00:35:01,695

And I have that drive to do it.

491

00:35:01,695 --> 00:35:05,110

I'm able to, I know the story or I at least know what I want to do.

492

00:35:05,110 --> 00:35:11,675

in this situation, obviously it's like, okay, I'm not as familiar with this person or

sometimes like not at all familiar with this person.

493

00:35:11,675 --> 00:35:15,348

So that gives me a chance to do a little bit of a deep dive.

494

00:35:15,348 --> 00:35:23,274

But if you add that layer into also, so you're not familiar, but you're also like, you

don't use this style.

495

00:35:23,274 --> 00:35:24,205

You're not similar.

496

00:35:24,205 --> 00:35:25,435

You're not used to this style.

497

00:35:25,435 --> 00:35:27,578

So it was like a two for one.

498

00:35:27,578 --> 00:35:30,280

I'm like, okay, all right, let's see what we can do.

499

00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:30,999

But

500

00:35:31,161 --> 00:35:35,133

I always believe that any challenge is worth at least trying.

501

00:35:35,133 --> 00:35:36,754

And if it doesn't work, it doesn't work.

502

00:35:36,754 --> 00:35:38,976

And somebody else will get their moment.

503

00:35:38,976 --> 00:35:44,340

I think I was ready for the challenge, and I wanted to be able to tell that story.

504

00:35:44,340 --> 00:35:49,324

I was able, we were able to do something that neither one of us had done yet.

505

00:35:49,324 --> 00:35:53,456

And I think it elevated us at that time to be able to like, all right, so what's next?

506

00:35:53,456 --> 00:35:54,428

What are we going to do?

507

00:35:54,428 --> 00:35:55,476

So I'm thankful.

508

00:35:55,476 --> 00:36:00,971

that I even had a chance to be able to do that with you and hopefully it's the first of

many more.

509

00:36:01,083 --> 00:36:02,054

Absolutely, yeah.

510

00:36:02,054 --> 00:36:05,086

And it's one of those rise to the occasion kind of things too.

511

00:36:05,086 --> 00:36:08,648

I think all of us will always have that parent style that we talked about.

512

00:36:08,648 --> 00:36:11,690

And you'll always have that thing that you feel comfortable doing.

513

00:36:11,690 --> 00:36:17,235

And when a talent comes to you or someone says, hey, I want to go in this direction, I

want to do this, you can either say, you know what?

514

00:36:17,235 --> 00:36:19,017

This is not something I'm comfortable with.

515

00:36:19,017 --> 00:36:28,324

And you have to also kind of know how comfortable you feel being uncomfortable and how

comfortable you feel going into that unknown and being like, all right, what can we do?

516

00:36:28,324 --> 00:36:35,940

just kind of jumping in head first and being like, all right, cool, no preconceived

notions, no anything else, how can we really create what we want to create here?

517

00:36:35,940 --> 00:36:38,453

And I feel like with both of us, we both went into it with that.

518

00:36:38,453 --> 00:36:48,381

And for me, and I'm sure for you too, whenever you hear a talent go, my God, this is

amazing, this is great, I'm so jazzed, I'm so amped about it, it just makes you feel happy

519

00:36:48,381 --> 00:36:48,562

too.

520

00:36:48,562 --> 00:36:50,884

And then when you see it being used, you're like, even better.

521

00:36:50,884 --> 00:36:55,441

And for me, with me not being as familiar with that style going and giving something,

522

00:36:55,441 --> 00:36:59,252

to both you and him being able to see how excited everybody was about it.

523

00:36:59,252 --> 00:37:01,706

I was like, wow, that's really cool.

524

00:37:01,706 --> 00:37:05,902

And here I was sitting being like, you I don't know how we're going to go ahead and do

this, but we did it.

525

00:37:05,902 --> 00:37:06,991

And it sounds cool.

526

00:37:06,991 --> 00:37:12,485

And he's still using it to this day, which, you know, for longevity sake, I'm always very

happy about that.

527

00:37:12,485 --> 00:37:17,462

And I actually want to tie back to Trinity for a second too, because you said you've

worked on multiple themes with her.

528

00:37:17,462 --> 00:37:20,268

And I think that's really important to...

529

00:37:20,268 --> 00:37:21,689

have been able to have done too.

530

00:37:21,689 --> 00:37:24,639

use a lot of the work that I've done with Mercedes Martinez.

531

00:37:24,639 --> 00:37:28,351

We've worked on a couple of her post-WWD videos together.

532

00:37:28,351 --> 00:37:30,091

Yeah, she's so good.

533

00:37:30,091 --> 00:37:31,192

She's so great.

534

00:37:31,192 --> 00:37:37,153

And like even outside of wrestling, she's just literally like the nicest person, one of

the coolest people.

535

00:37:37,153 --> 00:37:42,095

And you know, I always hate doing that because I feel like I'm burying the fact that she's

just a killer in the ring.

536

00:37:42,095 --> 00:37:43,816

But dude, she's great.

537

00:37:43,816 --> 00:37:44,876

She is.

538

00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:54,664

And being able to be somebody that's worked on multiple themes for one talent or a couple

of talents, it becomes one of these things where it's like your sound goes with them.

539

00:37:54,664 --> 00:38:00,486

If you think about, I'm going to get his name wrong, but Warren, who did like DX, the

voice for DX, right?

540

00:38:00,486 --> 00:38:03,747

He then went and did Triple H's theme, right?

541

00:38:03,747 --> 00:38:05,349

Went before he did the game and everything.

542

00:38:05,349 --> 00:38:12,292

And it's just cool to be able to say like, there's that little tie in that little

connection between this person worked here, now it's here.

543

00:38:12,292 --> 00:38:14,523

It takes that evolution to the next level.

544

00:38:14,523 --> 00:38:22,227

You know that talent from the previous theme, from the previous part of the evolution, so

you get the opportunity to take some of those things and move them in as well.

545

00:38:22,227 --> 00:38:23,605

I think it's really special.

546

00:38:23,605 --> 00:38:25,476

Yeah, yeah, I love that.

547

00:38:25,476 --> 00:38:28,108

I think that's a really, really good point.

548

00:38:28,108 --> 00:38:36,414

I even think about when Edge at the time, you know, when he started the Judgment Day and

he was able to use, why is the band's name escaping me right now?

549

00:38:36,414 --> 00:38:37,514

Alter Bridge.

550

00:38:37,614 --> 00:38:38,535

Yeah.

551

00:38:38,535 --> 00:38:44,398

And so like just how the character evolves, but still being able to hear a piece of that

sound.

552

00:38:44,398 --> 00:38:46,979

I thought that was so, so cool.

553

00:38:46,979 --> 00:38:47,760

Like,

554

00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:53,145

And so yeah, there are certain people that I hope to continue being part of their journey.

555

00:38:53,145 --> 00:38:58,569

But I also, I'm one of those people who I don't want just my voice to be the only voice on

the show.

556

00:38:58,569 --> 00:38:59,590

You know what I mean?

557

00:38:59,590 --> 00:39:08,830

So I'm glad that I have opportunities, but I'm also glad that it's not just over-saturated

or that, there's so much talent.

558

00:39:08,830 --> 00:39:14,384

I think AEW does a really good job of showcasing in the past of like,

559

00:39:14,384 --> 00:39:25,548

There's so many other rappers that talk about wrestling and there's so many people who are

on the metal side and ruckus is even brought in people who do like orchestra based things,

560

00:39:25,548 --> 00:39:25,778

right?

561

00:39:25,778 --> 00:39:31,820

There's music is so big that you can go in all types of different directions.

562

00:39:31,820 --> 00:39:41,452

And I think, I think wrestling is at a point now where there's too many opportunities to

just have the one guy or like the three guys or whatever.

563

00:39:41,452 --> 00:39:42,222

So

564

00:39:42,648 --> 00:39:48,660

I love it, and I think that we all in different aspects are able to have like a little

piece of the puzzle.

565

00:39:48,660 --> 00:39:50,541

And it's just cool to see.

566

00:39:50,541 --> 00:39:58,878

Yeah, and I think Mikey Ruckus is somebody who, you you bringing him up, is somebody that

is not even afraid to tap onto different people too.

567

00:39:58,878 --> 00:40:07,337

You know, I've been grateful to work on Sting's theme, not Sting's theme, but when they

did the Sting EP for his retirement, me and Roy ended up working on the Surfer Sting

568

00:40:07,337 --> 00:40:07,617

theme.

569

00:40:07,617 --> 00:40:10,950

And there have been a couple of my works and your works that have gone through AEW.

570

00:40:10,950 --> 00:40:16,135

And it's so weird to say that because it's kind of like they have a guy, they have the guy

who does it.

571

00:40:16,135 --> 00:40:17,043

And yet,

572

00:40:17,043 --> 00:40:20,103

he'll reach out to people and be like, hey, can I get you on this?

573

00:40:20,103 --> 00:40:26,843

Or if you've worked on something for somebody, if all of a sudden him and Tony approve it,

then all of a sudden it's up on the show.

574

00:40:26,843 --> 00:40:35,303

It's just cool to be able to see, like you said, wrestling being in this landscape now, to

where there is that collaboration, a lot of reaching across the aisle and saying, hey,

575

00:40:35,303 --> 00:40:36,803

could I do it all on my own?

576

00:40:36,803 --> 00:40:37,623

Sure.

577

00:40:37,623 --> 00:40:39,483

But I don't.

578

00:40:39,483 --> 00:40:44,861

And I do end up saying, hey, having more talent and having more people involved in the

industry,

579

00:40:44,861 --> 00:40:51,475

You know, and even you did Willow Nightingale on Who We Are, which is, again, just a

banger track there too, and Willow's awesome.

580

00:40:51,475 --> 00:41:00,930

But being able to see those opportunities show up and be able to grow the people that are

able to, you know, put music into the wrestling ecosystem, that can't be understated.

581

00:41:00,930 --> 00:41:06,584

Now, I know that I told you that there was one question at the end that I ask everybody,

and for those listeners, you know what the question is.

582

00:41:06,584 --> 00:41:12,527

If you could choose three songs to put on a Spotify playlist that represent Josiah

Williams,

583

00:41:12,527 --> 00:41:14,388

What would those three songs be?

584

00:41:14,388 --> 00:41:16,221

And they don't just have to be songs that you've released.

585

00:41:16,221 --> 00:41:19,534

They could be anything from throughout the ecosystem.

586

00:41:19,534 --> 00:41:28,423

Now I say three, some people have given me five, someone gave me six, someone gave me

their whole discography, but I think three is a nice solid number.

587

00:41:28,423 --> 00:41:29,063

So.

588

00:41:29,063 --> 00:41:30,225

yeah, okay.

589

00:41:30,225 --> 00:41:44,472

Well, so I'm gonna play it a little bit differently and not use my own, em but there are a

few tracks that have stuck with me just throughout my time on Earth.

590

00:41:44,472 --> 00:41:48,296

So, Broken Dreams, Drew McIntyre's theme song.

591

00:41:48,296 --> 00:41:53,868

I believe the band's name is either Shayman's Harvest, I'm hoping I'm pronouncing it

correctly, but.

592

00:41:53,987 --> 00:41:57,700

The Broken Dreams theme song to me was everything.

593

00:41:57,700 --> 00:42:01,230

It told the story, but it had the power.

594

00:42:01,230 --> 00:42:03,883

It matched the character perfectly.

595

00:42:03,883 --> 00:42:07,146

No notes, I would change absolutely nothing about the song.

596

00:42:07,146 --> 00:42:11,167

And WWE did a really good job of like, okay, they like this.

597

00:42:11,167 --> 00:42:12,247

Let's hold onto it.

598

00:42:12,247 --> 00:42:14,068

Let's not give it to them right away.

599

00:42:14,068 --> 00:42:19,209

Like let's make them search the internet even though we know it's not there and try to,

you know.

600

00:42:19,209 --> 00:42:27,839

They played it so perfectly and when it did eventually drop, like I listened to it at

least six trillion times in a row back to back.

601

00:42:27,839 --> 00:42:28,900

I love that.

602

00:42:28,900 --> 00:42:31,031

I love that 100%.

603

00:42:31,031 --> 00:42:39,819

So that one on the more modern era side, I am going to say Sting's theme from AEW.

604

00:42:41,701 --> 00:42:42,972

so powerful.

605

00:42:42,972 --> 00:42:50,016

So we had the first ever AEW music live performance and Ruckus obviously headlined that.

606

00:42:50,016 --> 00:42:58,473

I got to open up for him, but hearing even just in the rehearsal, like, dun, dun, dun,

dun, I was like, it's happening.

607

00:42:58,473 --> 00:43:02,056

my gosh, it's happening.

608

00:43:02,056 --> 00:43:04,057

It is such a powerful theme to me.

609

00:43:04,057 --> 00:43:09,645

One that I will always love and just, I haven't had a chance to even talk to him about

like,

610

00:43:09,645 --> 00:43:13,006

creating that and know, whatever, but so cool.

611

00:43:13,006 --> 00:43:15,448

And then voices for Randy Orton.

612

00:43:15,448 --> 00:43:24,150

Jim Johnson just hearing there's a video where he talked about like him playing it just

like on acoustic and you know, coming up with the lyrics and what he was going to do for

613

00:43:24,150 --> 00:43:24,321

it.

614

00:43:24,321 --> 00:43:36,314

And so knowing that he just had this acoustic track and that somebody was able to take

that and turn it into even more than what he envisioned it to be like that's just, I don't

615

00:43:36,314 --> 00:43:36,981

know.

616

00:43:36,981 --> 00:43:38,182

That's special.

617

00:43:38,182 --> 00:43:50,288

And I think even now, what, Randy's 20 something years in, and when he goes, whether it's

overseas or here domestically, when they hear that theme song, one, they lose their minds.

618

00:43:50,288 --> 00:43:53,250

And then after that comes, it's not even a calm down.

619

00:43:53,250 --> 00:43:57,993

They just, it goes from the crowd pop straight into now we're singing this together.

620

00:43:57,993 --> 00:44:01,315

And this is gonna be a moment for each and every one of us.

621

00:44:01,315 --> 00:44:04,937

And it's almost louder than the crowd pop itself.

622

00:44:05,114 --> 00:44:14,944

That is special and I will always believe whether he is a face or a heel, that song plays

perfectly no matter where you are.

623

00:44:15,225 --> 00:44:15,974

those are the three.

624

00:44:15,974 --> 00:44:25,734

because if you watch that video where Jim Johnson is talking about, I wrote it on acoustic

guitar, you can understand 100 % where he's coming from, like that whole brooding kind of

625

00:44:25,734 --> 00:44:28,034

like, that dark acoustic kind of vibe.

626

00:44:28,034 --> 00:44:30,894

You could totally see where he's coming from and it would have worked.

627

00:44:30,894 --> 00:44:39,814

But then when you hear what Rev Theory did and they expanded it into the track that it

was, like this heavy driving track and everything, it's just, you can't envision anything

628

00:44:39,814 --> 00:44:40,718

better.

629

00:44:40,718 --> 00:44:41,600

for Randy Orton.

630

00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:45,427

think there was a report that came out a while ago that was like, someone tried and he was

like, Nope.

631

00:44:45,427 --> 00:44:48,222

So I mean, that's not even talking bad about anybody else.

632

00:44:48,222 --> 00:44:49,404

It's just, you got the theme.

633

00:44:49,404 --> 00:44:51,418

That's the theme, that's the theme.

634

00:44:51,418 --> 00:44:54,312

But yeah, those are, yeah.

635

00:44:54,510 --> 00:45:04,110

they've released like a 20, I don't even know, like a 20 year anniversary version of the

song where it's like has even more drive, which I didn't know was possible.

636

00:45:04,110 --> 00:45:08,230

They also did like a dubstep theme that, and all this is just on Spotify.

637

00:45:08,230 --> 00:45:15,590

I don't know if they're ever going to use it for anything, but like, I even listened to

those and, and they're different layers of the same song.

638

00:45:15,590 --> 00:45:19,430

And I could see how that would still be able to tell his story in Ring.

639

00:45:19,580 --> 00:45:21,449

It's just special to me, man.

640

00:45:21,449 --> 00:45:22,904

It's amazing to see.

641

00:45:22,990 --> 00:45:24,571

Yeah, I love that.

642

00:45:24,571 --> 00:45:28,453

you know, those three songs, I'm just like, man, those are good choices.

643

00:45:28,453 --> 00:45:29,694

You choose such great things.

644

00:45:29,694 --> 00:45:30,974

You do such great things.

645

00:45:30,974 --> 00:45:34,797

And that's why I'm happy that we were able to sit down for a little bit and have you on

the show.

646

00:45:34,797 --> 00:45:37,158

It's been such an awesome time chatting with you, my friend.

647

00:45:37,158 --> 00:45:39,840

And you know, this will be the first of many, obviously.

648

00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:42,405

And I'm just excited to have been able to chat with you for a little bit.

649

00:45:42,405 --> 00:45:44,447

So thank you so much for coming on the show.

650

00:45:44,447 --> 00:45:49,207

Man, it is an honor and I truly do thank you.

651

00:45:49,207 --> 00:45:53,847

I'm sorry that we didn't make this happen earlier, but like I said, now is the perfect

time.

652

00:45:53,847 --> 00:45:56,447

And I'm going to say this before we close this interview.

653

00:45:56,447 --> 00:46:08,287

Hopefully, if everything goes right by the end of even just a couple of months from now or

like into the fall, we should probably do this again because there's going to be some fun

654

00:46:08,287 --> 00:46:13,550

things, hopefully, that we can have another fun conversation about pretty soon.

655

00:46:13,550 --> 00:46:14,585

Absolutely, I would love to.

656

00:46:14,585 --> 00:46:15,660

Yeah, let's make it happen.

657

00:46:15,660 --> 00:46:16,741

Of course.