Shaman's Harvest Nathan Hunt on Drew McIntyre Broken Dreams, Jim Johnston, The Music Industry

jim has access to the best gear That a person pot like any musician could possibly have

i've been in their studio.

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It's wall to wall Huge room their a room is huge.

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It's pretty impressive.

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But what I got was like this casio keyboard from like 1988

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Like him just kind of plucking out the melody, ding ding ding ding And I think I got a

tape like a voice record, know, like in the old days when you had a voice recorder It was

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like a scene.

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I had to go find A tape machine to play this tape.

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I think we got one in the mail

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And it's him singing in a different key than the ding ding ding ding on the Casio.

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Nathan Hunt of Shamans Harvest.

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man, this is one I've been wanting to do for a while.

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Ever since I had a buddy of mine Josiah Williams on who's also many of you may know in the

wrestling ecosystem.

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He's like, dude, you gotta get Shamans Harvest on.

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And I'm just so happy to have you on the show today because you've been such a big part of

my life upbringing in the wrestling and music.

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So thank you for making time for today.

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I'm happy to be here, man.

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I'm glad it finally happened.

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Absolutely.

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And it's one of these things where it's like when you're growing up with wrestling and

you're a fan of wrestling, you're hearing all this different music going on.

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And sometimes you know, or sometimes you think like with the big shows theme that it's him

singing it and you're just like, it's not.

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And then you find out who it is and you're just like, who are these guys?

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And you hear the whole discography and you're off to the races on that.

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So Shamans Harvest for those who don't know.

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Obviously we're going to be talking about Drew McIntyre's theme, the WrestleMania 31 theme

that you or the WrestleMania 31 piece of music that you did for Bray and Undertaker and

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all that.

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But for those in attendance and for those watching at home, as we say in wrestling, I'd

love for you to give a little bit of background on your road into music and a little bit

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about Shamans Harvest as well as if it needs any extra introduction.

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I'm sure it does.

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We've been around for since the 90s, late 90s.

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We were in high school together.

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And, um you know, well, there's only a couple of us left from high school.

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Nobody's dead or anything.

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We just moved on to better things.

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But, you know, yeah, we just wanted to be.

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uh But none of us were friends in high school, you know, like we didn't know each other,

we didn't hang out with each other.

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We just kind of were at a party.

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And somebody was the douchebag with the acoustic guitar in the corner of the room, you

know?

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And then just kind of slowly somebody picked up a bass, somebody was beating on a bucket.

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And next thing you know, we're like, Hey, you want to be in a band?

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Okay.

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You know, and we had, you know, as we got hired for the field parties and the things that

you do out in the Midwest and playing the bars before we were could be in them and all

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that stuff.

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And then kind of slowly worked regionally and

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We're about ready to hang up the spurs and we uh wanted to record our little EP and it was

from a record we made called Shine and that was probably in 2008 or 2009 and one of the

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songs started gaining traction, the song called Dragonfly.

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um

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radio stations around the country started playing it, you know, randomly weren't shooting

for it at all.

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And it just kind of organically, this is back when you could still something could be

organic, you know, in the radio world.

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And um people were calling in like, who was that?

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And next thing you know, we're buying a van and touring the country and

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And a few years later, we were able to get in the bus and then tour the country and just

keep on keeping on.

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And we're still doing it today, you know, making records.

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And we on that record, shine record, that song that did OK song Dragonfly, a feller named

Joe, I know if you want to get into it yet, but a feller named Jim Johnson had heard that

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song somehow.

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Somebody sent it to him or something.

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And this was another whole nother record later.

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uh He had contacted our people through his people or whatever.

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And like, hey, I don't know if you're into wrestling or nothing, but uh this guy wants you

to make a song for aggressive.

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And I was a child of the 80s.

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I mean, I watched on Saturday morning cartoons back when it was WWF.

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And junkyard dog and macho, Ultimate Warrior was my dude.

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The whole thing was.

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Pretty surreal.

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It was a full circle moment, but yeah, and we're like, all right, we'll get into it.

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I was going ask you too, before we jump too far into that too, coming into this, I know

much like many of us, were a child of the 80s and all that, up to that point, had you seen

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any of, I know that we, not necessarily the current product now, but were you at least

knowledgeable about what was going on when Drew McIntyre had come in?

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No, no, not at all.

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Like I had like the last rasslin I watched was um it was like when there was like the the

battles between the wwe and uh Wcw yeah.

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Yeah, that was the last on in the tvs and turner had the thing with wcw and so that was

like the and like that was probably the last thing I had really like followed, you know

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and um

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You know, then life, you know, happens.

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I didn't have anything cool to like look forward to every week.

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So, ah yeah, no, I had no idea, you know, who he was.

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And I think he was relatively new, wasn't he?

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Wasn't he getting he's getting like a rebrand, right?

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Yeah, and like back then to kind of paint a little bit of a picture too Drew McIntyre

comes in and for those who are familiar with Drew McIntyre at the time of this recording

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He looks way different ladies and gentlemen like the guy just looks like again He can hurt

you in every flavor and it's one of these things where when he came in He was more clean

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shaven.

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He had the long he still has a long hair, but it was like really polished well back You

know talking about again his trunks are all Scotland all this kind of stuff and it's

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really cool, but like

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he was Vince McMahon's chosen one, right?

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And that's what he always goes back to.

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Like he was the guy who was chosen by the CEO, the board, whatever you want to call them,

right?

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But chosen by the man to do the thing.

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And then he comes back and he's always shown a bit of this vicious cycle.

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But Broken Dreams to me was a was such an interesting song.

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And yeah, you're talking about maybe Drew McIntyre.

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Now that song, it's like, OK, cool.

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What could you envision for him?

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Yeah.

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But back then,

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He was, back then he was like pretty fresh on the scene, yeah.

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Yeah, that's now that you've actually just sparked a memory in my head.

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I do remember I was talking to Jim on the phone before we heard this, you know what he

wanted to do or anything, but he was like, you know, this is going to be huge.

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This guy's going to be huge.

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He's got a there's a big plan for this guy, um which I don't know if they ever really went

to fruition there in the early stages, but there's this big plan for him and he's they

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weren't real happy with.

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ah You know the whole package that he had going on like his whole his old image and they

want a little darker vibe ah To it and they wanted to reflect that in that song this this

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rebrand had to like, you know, it was kind of like My understanding is relatively

overnight, you know as those things go and uh Yeah, yeah, and then he sent us a

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some music we weren't really really stoked on then i had to really really rethink about it

again uh

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what he sent you.

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So because I've talked to a couple of people that have worked with Jim and Jim, if you're

watching or listening, we got to have you on the show too one of these days,

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he'd love to do it, I'm sure.

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Yeah, he's kind of like, with this kind of show, the guy, right?

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The one that it's like, let's talk about all these different ones.

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But, you know, with my buddies in Downstate, they talk about, you know, he would send us

demos and, you know, then we would kind of take our own spin on it and do whatever it is

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that we did.

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And the way that they've painted the picture was like, Jim went ahead and gave us a lot of

the leniency.

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He was like, okay, I know what you guys sound like.

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now...

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if I'm recording it on standard or on an acoustic, if you guys are to drop tune it, that's

fine, do your thing.

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Was that a similar kind of process with Jim or was maybe the demo that he sent you a

little bit different than what ended up coming out?

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very different.

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It was I mean first of all

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jim has access to the best gear That a person pot like any musician could possibly have

i've been in their studio.

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It's wall to wall Huge room their a room is huge.

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It's pretty impressive.

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But what I got was like this casio keyboard from like 1988

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Like him just kind of plucking out the melody, you know the ding ding ding ding and um and

then And then him singing into like a oh no, if I remember correctly I think I got a tape

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like a voice record, know, like in the old days when you had a voice recorder It was like

a scene.

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I had to go find A tape machine to play this tape.

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I think we got one in the mail

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And it's him singing in a different key than the ding ding ding ding on the Casio.

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These are like.

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Yeah, no, these are so I'm I'm really trying to grasp what this is, and at this time I

have no idea what an interest theme should like the structure of one should go.

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I'm thinking, you know, I'm thinking radio or I'm thinking just like a commercial song

that you would write.

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You know, here's my verse, chorus verse bridge.

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Yeah.

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second too, and we'll come back to that.

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But envision this guys, Drew McIntyre, and I'm gonna get my timetable wrong a little bit,

but let's say 2006, 2009, right?

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We're starting to get into this point in 2025 where even the stuff that I do, you guys may

see a computer back here, you may not depending on the view, but like I do everything

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here.

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We were just talking before we hopped on that, you we both have home studios and.

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If I were to collaborate with you or you were to collaborate with me, it's fairly

simplistic now to go on, hit record in whatever software you're using, send it off through

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email and states, countries.

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It's so easy to do, right?

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But 2006, 2009 isn't that far off either.

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You had whatever it was, right?

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And Jim Johnson still sends it to you on a tape and he's like, hey, now you got to go find

the antiquated equipment.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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So you can imagine where we were at.

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Like, we were all trying to rethink this, like, man, like,

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We just had this single on the radio.

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Is this going to be good for our career to put this what we're because we've yet to put

this song together.

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You know what mean?

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All I have is ding, ding, ding, ding.

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And then him humming in a different key on this tape, you know.

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And then he sends me a list of the lyrics and whatnot.

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And.

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You know.

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We're like, OK, let's just get in the room and let's just start hammering it out.

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And this is back in the day when bands would just sit there and just practice all day

long.

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And it's just what you did.

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It's no problem.

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so we're, you know, we start to get to something that we.

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OK, this is kind of it's got some balls to it, you know, it's we wouldn't be ashamed for

it to be out in the world.

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And but it's the structure.

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The structure is different.

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You know, like what we recorded initially is completely different than what you hear now.

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It's like there's a it's a structured song, as you would hear.

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And Jim would call and he would be like, man, I don't know.

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I don't I don't like this.

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I don't like this.

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I don't like this.

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And we kind of have this back and forth.

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I wouldn't say argue, but it was it would be a disagreement on what.

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Good is in this in this.

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But I have no idea what I'm talking about.

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So I was just you know Maybe I should just shut the fuck up and and let Jim be Jim I

finally got I had five I'd finally wrapped my head around that and So then then the notes

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that he started giving were a little more Yeah, yeah I could handle that yeah and then so

yeah, yeah, we got in the studio and

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Track the song and finally, you know, I don't know if you know I'm

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If you get the the truth from other bands and talk about jim.

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He's a hard guy to please, you know, you could you could deliver what you think is like

the like chef's kiss, you know, but um You know, he's gonna he's gonna put his two cents

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on it and and we eventually I think we got to a place where I remember

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I'm in the studio and this is like in real time and

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just to paint the picture of it, is it your studio?

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it a guy that you're...

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is one I'm making a record in another studio and while we're there, I'm using that studio

time to go and do this, you know?

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ah

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So it's not recording like let's say in gym studio.

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Cause know some people have gone to, you him and recorded, but you guys are doing it like

with your own guys.

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Okay, cool.

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this is and I mean, in the budget wasn't like what they're paying us.

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Well, I wasn't going to fly everybody up there for all that anyways.

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So we needed to use.

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The time we already had booked to try to crowbar this song in and get it out of the way

and get to what we found important at the time, you know, and.

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Because broken dreams was not important to us.

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We're just OK, let's make this guy happy and get this off our plate and move what we want

to do.

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So we're in real time and we send him a thing.

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You know, we send him our the our take on it, the stem.

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And he's like, yeah, I don't like this.

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And so we change it.

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I send it to him.

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And I finally start figuring it out.

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And he would then he would give us another note.

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He's like, I want you to change this.

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Sing it this way.

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and then change the keys to a different vibe, know, on whoever's playing the keys.

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And I was like, OK, well, I just sent him the exact same thing I sent him before.

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And he was like, it's perfect.

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Hahaha!

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So so I started kind of getting and then we we developed a relationship after that to work

on a few other projects.

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That's awesome.

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And you know what?

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It's funny too, because for me, I started off in bands and in a lot of different projects

too, before I started really hammering in on just, you know, I do other original stuff

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too, but really hammering in on entrance themes.

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00:15:37,687 --> 00:15:46,999

And I tell people all the time, I'm like, there's a different mentality that you have to

have when you're being, in so many words, when you're a band that's doing a lot of

209

00:15:46,999 --> 00:15:51,581

originals and you have a voice and you have all of these things that represent you.

210

00:15:51,581 --> 00:15:53,687

When somebody comes to you and says, hey, I want,

211

00:15:53,687 --> 00:15:54,258

this.

212

00:15:54,258 --> 00:16:01,864

It's like, how do you respect what you guys do and put out something that you guys are

like, hey, this is Shaven's Harvest.

213

00:16:01,864 --> 00:16:09,504

But then how do you also take the notes of somebody coming to you and make something that

makes both of you happy?

214

00:16:09,504 --> 00:16:16,918

know, because when I do entrance themes on my own, it's very much like, I know I'm

commissioned to work for somebody, right?

215

00:16:16,918 --> 00:16:19,210

So I'm a bit of a chameleon when it comes to that.

216

00:16:19,210 --> 00:16:21,005

With you guys, it's more like

217

00:16:21,005 --> 00:16:29,765

He's coming to you because of your sound, because of you, because of the rest of the band,

and he's saying, hey, I want broken dreams in the style of what you guys do.

218

00:16:29,765 --> 00:16:35,625

But then there's that weird, like you said, that weird middle ground of like, it's kind of

what it is, but not yet.

219

00:16:35,625 --> 00:16:36,845

And then it gets there too.

220

00:16:36,845 --> 00:16:39,585

And by the way too, you're saying you're using studio time.

221

00:16:39,585 --> 00:16:42,345

Let me again, paint a timetable picture.

222

00:16:42,525 --> 00:16:45,785

You go now, all of a sudden we're collaborating.

223

00:16:45,785 --> 00:16:47,401

You end up saying, hey,

224

00:16:47,401 --> 00:16:48,782

I don't like this guitar thing.

225

00:16:48,782 --> 00:16:49,683

Okay, cool.

226

00:16:49,683 --> 00:16:51,404

I go into a program.

227

00:16:51,404 --> 00:16:53,245

I remove that one recording.

228

00:16:53,245 --> 00:16:58,589

I retrack it and you know, it could take a couple minutes maybe could take an hour or

whatever.

229

00:16:58,589 --> 00:16:59,565

It's in my studio.

230

00:16:59,565 --> 00:17:01,070

It's in your studio, whatever.

231

00:17:01,070 --> 00:17:02,421

This is time that you've booked.

232

00:17:02,421 --> 00:17:13,429

Like you said, while you're working on another record and this is completely different

technology at completely different time and not everything always being like recording

233

00:17:13,429 --> 00:17:14,690

directly into the computer.

234

00:17:14,690 --> 00:17:16,800

You got to remake things and

235

00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:17,022

yeah.

236

00:17:17,022 --> 00:17:22,394

song number three of your record and now you go, what the hell did we do for this?

237

00:17:22,394 --> 00:17:24,929

So it's a completely different timetable.

238

00:17:24,929 --> 00:17:25,490

can assume.

239

00:17:25,490 --> 00:17:26,261

Yeah.

240

00:17:26,383 --> 00:17:31,377

I mean, like you said earlier, it wasn't that long ago, but we've come so far.

241

00:17:31,377 --> 00:17:42,646

And as far as, know, how we how we record these record songs, you know, as we're blowing

our budget, you know, on these these studios back in the day, you know, I mean, of course,

242

00:17:42,646 --> 00:17:43,917

we still do that.

243

00:17:43,917 --> 00:17:50,732

But yeah, we're you know, so, you know, you got to just cram in as much stuff as possible,

you know.

244

00:17:50,997 --> 00:17:51,877

Of course, yeah.

245

00:17:51,877 --> 00:18:01,646

And you're talking about again, working on this song, which leads to, you know, other

things, but just to stick on this for a second too, know, Drew ended up using this until

246

00:18:01,646 --> 00:18:03,308

his exodus from WWE.

247

00:18:03,308 --> 00:18:08,692

Then he came back as Drew McIntyre, obviously after his time in the Indies comes back.

248

00:18:08,732 --> 00:18:14,217

And ever since he came back, and I can't remember what year he came back, but felt like a

brick shithouse man.

249

00:18:14,217 --> 00:18:16,859

Like this guy comes back, it's just unreal.

250

00:18:16,859 --> 00:18:19,083

And the first word that I'm all, what's that?

251

00:18:19,083 --> 00:18:19,957

Absolute unit.

252

00:18:19,957 --> 00:18:20,278

Sorry.

253

00:18:20,278 --> 00:18:20,743

Yeah.

254

00:18:20,743 --> 00:18:22,073

absolutely.

255

00:18:22,073 --> 00:18:27,615

And everybody since day one has been like, Hey, you know what you're missing?

256

00:18:27,615 --> 00:18:29,435

You're missing broken dreams.

257

00:18:29,435 --> 00:18:32,456

And he's just like, I'm trying, I'm trying.

258

00:18:32,456 --> 00:18:39,518

And then all of sudden they do this theme gallantry, which is what you hear with him now

with the, uh, what the bag pipes and whatnot.

259

00:18:39,518 --> 00:18:43,279

But then he ends up coming out for one of the pay-per-views.

260

00:18:43,279 --> 00:18:50,291

And I'm pretty sure it was Clash at Castle recently when he was at oh Roman Reigns a few

years ago, he comes back out.

261

00:18:50,389 --> 00:18:55,610

And the first things you hear that and everyone's just like, what?

262

00:18:55,610 --> 00:18:57,414

It just goes mental for it.

263

00:18:57,414 --> 00:19:01,634

So it was, how cool was it to see it come back so many years later?

264

00:19:01,634 --> 00:19:04,195

I got I did watch it live.

265

00:19:04,195 --> 00:19:11,818

actually I was on the road at the time and I mean, I was of course, I was just absolutely

inundated from social media.

266

00:19:11,818 --> 00:19:13,959

uh People sending it to me left and right.

267

00:19:13,959 --> 00:19:16,820

uh And I don't know.

268

00:19:16,820 --> 00:19:26,463

It was pretty, pretty damn cool because I started really hopping on the train to I was

like, you know, in my brain, I'm like because we didn't ever really perform the song live.

269

00:19:27,348 --> 00:19:37,884

really and um you know so i just kind of like that was that was the thing we did cool you

know what i mean and um so like you know but to have it years later and people are still

270

00:19:37,884 --> 00:19:49,681

talking about it jim uh that was a few years ago but jim said it's like one of the most

downloaded so our most streamed song of wwe history that to me is insane you know like

271

00:19:49,681 --> 00:19:55,784

anything like that is pretty crazy especially from where it started and how it wound up

272

00:19:55,806 --> 00:20:02,943

And then for him to bring up as pretty epic, I mean, it was one of those one of those

moments where you're like, all right, we did OK.

273

00:20:02,943 --> 00:20:04,235

You know what mean?

274

00:20:04,235 --> 00:20:07,486

Yeah, and know, Drew still talks about it to this day too.

275

00:20:07,486 --> 00:20:10,358

Like you hear in interviews that he loves that theme.

276

00:20:10,358 --> 00:20:15,190

And like you said, it's one of the most downloaded in the WWE music catalog.

277

00:20:15,190 --> 00:20:22,823

So, you know, it's crazy that we're talking about, there's, you know, I think you're

probably one of the first people that I've had on the show that's talking about like, Hey,

278

00:20:22,823 --> 00:20:27,375

there's this real strong back and forth between you and Jim on really getting this.

279

00:20:27,375 --> 00:20:31,016

And it turns out where again, sometimes what do they say about creative?

280

00:20:31,016 --> 00:20:33,607

Sometimes the friction is what makes the magic kind of thing.

281

00:20:33,607 --> 00:20:41,944

Yeah, it's kind of what we're missing now is like, there's a lot of people that, you you

have that leader in the band and he's just like, creates, creates, creates.

282

00:20:41,944 --> 00:20:46,618

But I do miss those days where you're like in the room and you're fighting with your

guitar player about the part.

283

00:20:46,618 --> 00:20:50,631

And that makes those songs so much cooler, you know, back then.

284

00:20:50,761 --> 00:20:51,542

Yeah, totally.

285

00:20:51,542 --> 00:20:59,638

And I actually just spoke with Rick from Finger 11 and you know, they just released their

new record and I've been a fan of theirs for a while too, but he talks about, you know,

286

00:20:59,638 --> 00:21:04,232

now that they're an independent and they're back in the room kind of working together.

287

00:21:04,232 --> 00:21:10,537

They've always been a band too, where I'm just like, you know, the guys are in there

working on the music together like you guys do.

288

00:21:10,537 --> 00:21:15,405

And I'm always just like, it's such a different dynamic than just one person.

289

00:21:15,405 --> 00:21:21,785

writing the music and being like, all right, well, you happen to play guitar, so do what a

guitarist would do, but take this, right?

290

00:21:21,785 --> 00:21:24,960

And then you play drums, you know, yeah, it's such a different thing.

291

00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:27,983

Yeah, and both of those things have its place.

292

00:21:28,204 --> 00:21:32,307

Different songs have its own thing, but you know when it's missing.

293

00:21:32,779 --> 00:21:33,619

Yeah, absolutely.

294

00:21:33,619 --> 00:21:35,490

And it also makes you feel like a band.

295

00:21:35,490 --> 00:21:39,861

just like, you know, if someone leaves the band, you're like, man, now I feel like that

part is gone.

296

00:21:39,861 --> 00:21:41,272

And now we have this person.

297

00:21:41,272 --> 00:21:45,113

And it really shows you like who contributed what parts to it.

298

00:21:45,113 --> 00:21:50,354

You know, it really makes it feel like a band instead of a project, you know, and it's a

real special thing.

299

00:21:50,354 --> 00:21:59,005

And then you talked about after all of this, you and Jim start working on some other

pieces to have the one that I'm familiar with, which we'll talk about.

300

00:21:59,005 --> 00:22:02,593

is the song that you did for the Bray Wyatt Undertaker feud.

301

00:22:02,593 --> 00:22:08,214

But I'd love for you to elaborate a little bit on some of the things that you had worked

on with WWE.

302

00:22:08,214 --> 00:22:22,740

yeah, I did a song called so they're you know, as you know involved in filmmaking as well

uh Part of the payoff because it wasn't in the chick we got for broken dreams but part of

303

00:22:22,740 --> 00:22:28,463

the payoff for that song was He was willing to put one of our songs in one of his movies.

304

00:22:28,463 --> 00:22:36,001

So we did that and then but after that he Dragonflies for a movie called legendary they

did

305

00:22:36,001 --> 00:22:36,816

Okay.

306

00:22:37,061 --> 00:22:40,921

And they did another movie, I think it's called No One Lives.

307

00:22:40,921 --> 00:22:42,265

I'm pretty sure that's what it was called.

308

00:22:42,265 --> 00:22:43,006

not sure.

309

00:22:43,006 --> 00:22:47,989

So in it and it's actually I like this song better than Broken Dream.

310

00:22:48,109 --> 00:22:49,540

I kind of wanted on a record.

311

00:22:49,540 --> 00:22:53,513

This song called Anger and is a song that we did for this.

312

00:22:53,513 --> 00:22:55,154

Yeah, this movie.

313

00:22:55,154 --> 00:22:57,075

No One Lives is kind of an action movie.

314

00:22:57,075 --> 00:23:03,580

um And then and then I did a country song.

315

00:23:03,850 --> 00:23:11,935

No, it wasn't really a country song for him, but it was, uh I would say, like very Bruce

Springsteen kind of vibe called Brother.

316

00:23:11,935 --> 00:23:13,856

Well, he wanted a Bruce Springsteen thing.

317

00:23:13,856 --> 00:23:24,671

I think what I delivered was a country version of what Bruce Springsteen may have thought

about in a dream when he was wasted or something like that.

318

00:23:24,673 --> 00:23:29,037

Well, one could say that he's a spiritual successor to some of the country stuff.

319

00:23:29,037 --> 00:23:31,209

Like if you feel the vibe and all, yeah.

320

00:23:31,209 --> 00:23:31,910

absolutely.

321

00:23:31,910 --> 00:23:33,170

He's the boss.

322

00:23:33,190 --> 00:23:37,143

And so, yeah, so I did that a song called Brother.

323

00:23:37,143 --> 00:23:40,995

That's a weird song.

324

00:23:40,995 --> 00:23:48,038

um There's a lot of weird little things, and then he'd send me stuff every once in while

for some entrance themes.

325

00:23:48,299 --> 00:23:53,562

And I'd done like three or four along the way, but nothing was ever really quite fitting

or whatever.

326

00:23:53,562 --> 00:23:57,424

So then he called me up to come up there.

327

00:23:57,956 --> 00:24:06,565

And they wanted to change Broken Dreams a little bit to where they wanted to make it more

like kind of more industrial vibe.

328

00:24:06,565 --> 00:24:08,417

It had a little Nine Inch Nails feel about it.

329

00:24:08,417 --> 00:24:10,990

So this is like another version of the same song.

330

00:24:11,351 --> 00:24:13,113

But he wanted me to re-cut it.

331

00:24:13,113 --> 00:24:15,795

And then while I was there...

332

00:24:17,068 --> 00:24:22,941

He called me, no sorry, it was a different, so that was, and then I got to see the

studios, cool.

333

00:24:22,941 --> 00:24:27,230

I happened to see Vince McMahon, which was pretty wild.

334

00:24:27,230 --> 00:24:28,020

ah

335

00:24:28,020 --> 00:24:29,135

was that?

336

00:24:29,625 --> 00:24:32,105

He was very gracious, super gracious.

337

00:24:32,105 --> 00:24:35,985

mean, I expected him to, know, yeah, yeah, OK, whatever.

338

00:24:36,165 --> 00:24:38,085

Here's your there's your little buddy, Jim.

339

00:24:38,085 --> 00:24:39,645

Go get out, you know, whatever.

340

00:24:39,645 --> 00:24:40,965

Get back to work.

341

00:24:41,465 --> 00:24:43,965

But no, he wasn't that character at all.

342

00:24:43,965 --> 00:24:45,505

was very gracious man.

343

00:24:45,505 --> 00:24:48,505

And he gave me I mean, he was busy, crazy busy.

344

00:24:48,505 --> 00:24:52,885

He talked to me for good 10 minutes, you know, which is a long time when you're in.

345

00:24:52,885 --> 00:24:53,805

This is all live.

346

00:24:53,805 --> 00:24:58,245

You know, they're going live, you know, at the time that they're doing all this stuff to.

347

00:24:58,584 --> 00:25:08,938

um So then I got called back and I did and that's when the WrestleMania with way bright

and the Undertaker.

348

00:25:09,709 --> 00:25:10,389

That's awesome.

349

00:25:10,389 --> 00:25:10,740

Yeah.

350

00:25:10,740 --> 00:25:17,034

And for those who are familiar with me at all is Bray is one of my favorite wrestlers of

all time.

351

00:25:17,034 --> 00:25:28,143

God rest his soul now, unfortunately, but you know, he's somebody who, for me, it was

like, I had gotten out of wrestling for years and then all of a sudden I was in college

352

00:25:28,143 --> 00:25:31,626

and a buddy of mine bought WrestleMania 2000 and it was like, who are these guys?

353

00:25:31,626 --> 00:25:32,896

Okay, then we're back in, right?

354

00:25:32,896 --> 00:25:34,248

Welcome to the show.

355

00:25:34,248 --> 00:25:36,459

But when Bray Wyatt came in, I was like,

356

00:25:36,459 --> 00:25:41,434

You know, with Undertaker and Kane, they wanted you for so long to basically be like,

these are two dead guys.

357

00:25:41,434 --> 00:25:43,216

And you're like, all right, they're not.

358

00:25:43,216 --> 00:25:47,170

But with Bray Wyatt, I was just like, I'm such a horror fan and a horror fanatic.

359

00:25:47,170 --> 00:25:51,344

And I'm like, at the degree of what you can do, right?

360

00:25:51,344 --> 00:25:56,690

What's one of the things in wrestling that you could create a horror gimmick of that's

kind of based in reality?

361

00:25:56,690 --> 00:25:57,290

A cult.

362

00:25:57,290 --> 00:26:00,161

Oh, what about some guy who's just.

363

00:26:00,161 --> 00:26:08,248

from the backwoods and has this whole crazy story and sells it like Bray does with all

these guys and you're just like, man, okay.

364

00:26:08,248 --> 00:26:13,651

Then he does it in such, yeah.

365

00:26:14,121 --> 00:26:14,873

100%.

366

00:26:14,873 --> 00:26:16,775

Yeah, unbelievably so.

367

00:26:16,775 --> 00:26:27,423

And you know, he did things after that, obviously with The Fiend and he always lives to me

as one of my favorites, but to me, nothing beats that cult leader Bray Wyatt and going

368

00:26:27,423 --> 00:26:30,025

into that Undertaker thing, it was just.

369

00:26:30,025 --> 00:26:31,797

Undertaker wasn't around the whole time.

370

00:26:31,797 --> 00:26:37,472

Undertaker was like, MIA, he showed up at WrestleMania, he beat Bray, all that stuff is

fine.

371

00:26:37,472 --> 00:26:42,847

But Bray had to basically carry that feud on his own with all these promos and things.

372

00:26:42,847 --> 00:26:44,859

And he did, and he did, because he's Bray.

373

00:26:44,859 --> 00:26:48,863

But again, to have this awesome song complement it and then there was darkness.

374

00:26:48,863 --> 00:26:55,818

So tell us a little bit about that and some of the work that happened with Jim too,

because that one's a bit different, obviously, than Broken Dreams.

375

00:26:55,818 --> 00:26:56,428

Yeah.

376

00:26:56,428 --> 00:27:00,710

um Yeah, it was weird though.

377

00:27:00,710 --> 00:27:11,715

uh When I saw the final piece, I see like what I'm seeing or especially when I'm writing

and Jim and I are like we're bouncing ideas back and forth the whole time and

378

00:27:14,072 --> 00:27:20,472

So we are in this creative process as it's going down, as we're laying the takes down.

379

00:27:20,792 --> 00:27:24,712

And he's like explaining to me, he's like, OK, imagine this.

380

00:27:24,712 --> 00:27:29,592

he's explaining Bray to me.

381

00:27:29,692 --> 00:27:35,172

Because I had no idea at this time what's going on.

382

00:27:35,208 --> 00:27:36,978

And but I knew the Undertaker.

383

00:27:36,978 --> 00:27:42,373

I was just like, the fact that I could be involved in anything that he did from from the

old days.

384

00:27:42,373 --> 00:27:53,541

um So he's explaining this to me and I'm kind of seeing it and what I saw, what the final

piece was way cooler than what I saw, but it was not what I imagined.

385

00:27:53,541 --> 00:27:56,242

So like there's a lot of these.

386

00:27:56,903 --> 00:28:01,586

He's explaining this backwoods the swampy kind of dude to me.

387

00:28:01,586 --> 00:28:02,527

OK.

388

00:28:02,527 --> 00:28:04,588

And so I'm like kind of like.

389

00:28:04,908 --> 00:28:11,608

There's these ad-libs that are in that uh thing that's these like little bluesy runs like

that you would imagine.

390

00:28:11,608 --> 00:28:16,257

So I'm trying to imagine like this, I don't know, like a Louisiana kind of thing.

391

00:28:16,257 --> 00:28:16,807

You know what mean?

392

00:28:16,807 --> 00:28:20,280

So I'm throwing a lot of these little bluesy looks in there.

393

00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:23,462

And, you know, I don't it to be in that.

394

00:28:23,462 --> 00:28:25,603

I mean, I I love being in the studio.

395

00:28:25,603 --> 00:28:27,174

It's my favorite aspect of this.

396

00:28:27,174 --> 00:28:28,635

It's not shows are great.

397

00:28:28,635 --> 00:28:29,475

I like to play a show.

398

00:28:29,475 --> 00:28:30,886

You know, it's cool.

399

00:28:31,006 --> 00:28:33,548

But I love the creation of the creative process.

400

00:28:33,548 --> 00:28:37,970

mean, to me, that is the reason the whole reason I'm we're here.

401

00:28:37,970 --> 00:28:47,956

uh So like just to be in that world and to be in and Jim's world and, you know, he's not

he's no longer with.

402

00:28:48,343 --> 00:29:00,316

the WWE and they moved, but he was with them for a long, I think he was the, he was the

very first music director when the WWF first started.

403

00:29:01,016 --> 00:29:11,099

just the only guy that uh Jim McMahon knew that had an instrument, and he could kind of

play a keyboard.

404

00:29:11,099 --> 00:29:13,619

That is why he got the gig.

405

00:29:13,679 --> 00:29:16,300

He got the gig because he owned a keyboard.

406

00:29:17,004 --> 00:29:17,425

That's it.

407

00:29:17,425 --> 00:29:17,996

That's it.

408

00:29:17,996 --> 00:29:18,767

That's as far.

409

00:29:18,767 --> 00:29:20,189

then Jim was like, great, perfect.

410

00:29:20,189 --> 00:29:21,011

Move on.

411

00:29:21,011 --> 00:29:21,702

You know what mean?

412

00:29:21,702 --> 00:29:30,657

So like and then he sold it, though, like he carried that job for 40 years or whatever,

whatever, however long it's been.

413

00:29:30,657 --> 00:29:31,158

Yeah.

414

00:29:31,158 --> 00:29:40,408

And you know, it's funny though, you bring that up and with Jim, it's always well

documented that Jim wasn't the biggest wrestling fan in general.

415

00:29:40,408 --> 00:29:42,390

He was always like a film guy.

416

00:29:42,390 --> 00:29:43,450

Yeah.

417

00:29:43,491 --> 00:29:45,953

And so he made that apparent to you also.

418

00:29:46,188 --> 00:29:47,088

Absolutely.

419

00:29:47,088 --> 00:29:48,548

Like he was like the whole time.

420

00:29:48,548 --> 00:29:49,708

He's like, this is all beneath us.

421

00:29:49,708 --> 00:29:53,568

We know this, but like it's pretty cool to man.

422

00:29:53,568 --> 00:29:56,747

Come on, Why you got all this stuff?

423

00:29:56,747 --> 00:29:57,387

I love that.

424

00:29:57,387 --> 00:30:02,959

I love the fact that there's this legendary composer who's been doing this for like 30, 40

years.

425

00:30:02,959 --> 00:30:05,109

He's written some of the most amazing entrance themes.

426

00:30:05,109 --> 00:30:07,940

He's worked with amazing people such as yourself.

427

00:30:07,940 --> 00:30:10,721

And he's just like, yeah, I mean, this is, there's what we do.

428

00:30:10,721 --> 00:30:12,081

Yeah, it's cool.

429

00:30:12,081 --> 00:30:15,262

That being said, I did go to WWE headquarters recently.

430

00:30:15,262 --> 00:30:17,803

A buddy of mine does some of the audio engineering over there.

431

00:30:17,803 --> 00:30:20,590

And again, first off, amazing studio.

432

00:30:20,590 --> 00:30:21,290

It looks awesome.

433

00:30:21,290 --> 00:30:22,384

It looks great.

434

00:30:22,384 --> 00:30:23,965

Super professional, as you know.

435

00:30:23,965 --> 00:30:24,805

And,

436

00:30:25,491 --> 00:30:27,293

Jim not being there anymore.

437

00:30:27,293 --> 00:30:31,826

There were people that obviously got the chance to work in the time that he was there.

438

00:30:31,826 --> 00:30:38,892

And they were like, dude, Jim would just spend like 20 hours in the room and just do

nothing but compose.

439

00:30:38,892 --> 00:30:48,389

And I'm sitting there just like, you know, I I've done that too, probably a decent amount

of hours, but they're just like, yeah, we'd come in, we'd leave and he would still be

440

00:30:48,389 --> 00:30:48,880

there.

441

00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:53,734

Like it just so happens that he had all of his stuff here and he would just do it

beginning to end.

442

00:30:53,734 --> 00:30:54,721

And that was it.

443

00:30:54,721 --> 00:30:55,531

So

444

00:30:55,531 --> 00:31:02,768

yeah, he's a story of a guy who regardless of how he saw wrestling ah

445

00:31:05,142 --> 00:31:10,604

I mean, he's kind of tortured artist, you know, and that's, mean, he's a very happy dude.

446

00:31:10,604 --> 00:31:20,317

He's not, I'm not saying he's Kurt Cobain by any means, but what I'm saying is like, you

know, he would just, you know, obsess about his craft, you know?

447

00:31:20,317 --> 00:31:30,200

And the fact that he wasn't, or he claimed to not be that into, I mean, look, at one time,

BMI's a...

448

00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:34,402

You know as you know, but just for everybody else BMI they collect royalties.

449

00:31:34,402 --> 00:31:36,262

Okay?

450

00:31:36,823 --> 00:31:46,686

One of the three major companies that collect royalties in the United States He was the

top Royalty earner at BMI they had lady.

451

00:31:46,686 --> 00:31:48,847

This is when Lady Gaga was huge.

452

00:31:48,847 --> 00:31:51,548

Yeah, my house out

453

00:31:51,786 --> 00:31:54,617

Royaltying Lady Gaga, man.

454

00:31:54,617 --> 00:31:56,658

Just because I mean, you think about it Monday night.

455

00:31:56,658 --> 00:32:02,161

mean, I think that the Raw at one point was there's more people watch Raw than the Super

Bowl.

456

00:32:02,521 --> 00:32:03,132

You know what mean?

457

00:32:03,132 --> 00:32:04,252

And maybe that still exists.

458

00:32:04,252 --> 00:32:07,903

But so, you know, that all translates to royalty.

459

00:32:07,903 --> 00:32:12,186

So, you know, I he doesn't hate wrestling too much.

460

00:32:14,548 --> 00:32:14,933

Yeah.

461

00:32:14,933 --> 00:32:16,744

Like to some degree, yeah.

462

00:32:16,765 --> 00:32:17,485

But you know what?

463

00:32:17,485 --> 00:32:19,106

I've always thought about that too.

464

00:32:19,106 --> 00:32:27,683

And again, I got the opportunity to speak with him briefly on LinkedIn, which I added him

on LinkedIn a couple years ago when I started doing entrance themes.

465

00:32:27,683 --> 00:32:33,858

Because before that, even up to now, I still do some media, like short films, things like

that.

466

00:32:33,858 --> 00:32:38,605

And I was like, what kind of advice do you have for a schlep like me, right?

467

00:32:38,605 --> 00:32:44,065

And he was just like, you know, think about Undertaker and think about Stone Cold and all

these guys, right?

468

00:32:44,705 --> 00:32:52,365

And I asked him, I go, but, maybe it was a little bit weird of me to ask, but you'll kind

of understand where I'm coming from.

469

00:32:52,605 --> 00:32:54,905

Yeah, but like the Undertaker is a dead guy.

470

00:32:55,185 --> 00:33:00,545

You know, it's kind of not easy, but you can understand what you can do and not do, right?

471

00:33:00,545 --> 00:33:06,845

So how do you, how do you write for somebody that's just like a wrestler, which a lot of

the people on the roster are, right?

472

00:33:06,845 --> 00:33:08,171

Like, how do you do that?

473

00:33:08,171 --> 00:33:17,289

And I remember, I felt like it was a question that he hadn't really been asked because

every interview you see is Undertaker, Stone Cold, boom, Shawn Michaels, boom, give him my

474

00:33:17,289 --> 00:33:18,570

money, let's go home.

475

00:33:18,570 --> 00:33:18,880

Right?

476

00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:21,286

But I was like, but how do you write for like a Daniel Bryan?

477

00:33:21,286 --> 00:33:23,114

How do you write for a Steve Blackman?

478

00:33:23,114 --> 00:33:26,136

Like Stone Cold even, like his theme is amazing.

479

00:33:26,136 --> 00:33:27,638

But how do you write for a Stone Cold?

480

00:33:27,638 --> 00:33:31,161

He just, he's a guy who wears black trunks, he kicks your ass and he goes home.

481

00:33:31,161 --> 00:33:32,582

Like, how do you write for that?

482

00:33:32,582 --> 00:33:35,835

And he's just like, well, you know, he actually said something interesting.

483

00:33:35,835 --> 00:33:36,705

He goes,

484

00:33:36,715 --> 00:33:42,970

Some of the themes that I wrote at the time didn't make sense probably at the time that I

wrote them.

485

00:33:42,970 --> 00:33:52,458

But over time, when you heard them and you saw how they melded with the character, every

character has a story and you have to look at them like a movie.

486

00:33:52,458 --> 00:33:56,491

And when you do that, it makes the theme that you write have so much sense.

487

00:33:56,491 --> 00:34:06,601

And I think a lot of people now write music and entrance themes that are like really good

songs, but maybe aren't always great entrance themes, you know, but...

488

00:34:06,601 --> 00:34:12,645

Whereas with him, he's like, what's gonna make the best entrance scene that you know

exactly who this is gonna be?

489

00:34:12,645 --> 00:34:19,604

And again, he knows how to pick talent, you know, he knows how to bring people on again,

like you guys that just crush it with everything you did.

490

00:34:19,604 --> 00:34:31,789

Yeah, well I also some of those guys back then You know like, you know seven dust, know

There's lots of bands that had their songs too They'd be like and I think I feel like that

491

00:34:31,789 --> 00:34:37,411

might be in a play time when jim is like I I don't have a feeling for this guy yet You

know this character yet.

492

00:34:37,411 --> 00:34:39,432

I'm gonna bring in, you know

493

00:34:39,959 --> 00:34:48,252

Seven Dust for that, you know, just to use utilize that and do a uh you know, just use one

of their songs and then so that fills those blanks.

494

00:34:48,593 --> 00:34:49,493

Yeah, I don't.

495

00:34:49,493 --> 00:35:00,898

It's a great question that you asked them because I mean, yeah, how do you just I think

sometimes the wrestler becomes the character with the song, which I think it sounds like

496

00:35:00,898 --> 00:35:03,539

what he was kind of getting at.

497

00:35:03,539 --> 00:35:05,930

All of a sudden, it just kind of made sense, you know.

498

00:35:06,253 --> 00:35:07,833

Yeah, I agree with that.

499

00:35:08,013 --> 00:35:08,489

yeah, go ahead.

500

00:35:08,489 --> 00:35:22,780

organization is great at just molding and carving away and chipping away at the sculpture

to get the entire package there, you know.

501

00:35:22,967 --> 00:35:24,359

Yeah, I agree with that.

502

00:35:24,359 --> 00:35:29,247

And I know that you mentioned in passing that you had worked on some other themes too.

503

00:35:29,247 --> 00:35:35,157

Do you remember if they were for specific people and it was just like, okay, cool, like we

may go in a different direction?

504

00:35:35,157 --> 00:35:35,614

Okay.

505

00:35:35,614 --> 00:35:36,525

it was a lot of that.

506

00:35:36,525 --> 00:35:39,398

And I think it was like they were doing that next program.

507

00:35:39,398 --> 00:35:41,861

I don't know if they did it next year.

508

00:35:41,861 --> 00:35:46,987

So it was like these wrestlers that might be coming up that they had this plan for.

509

00:35:46,987 --> 00:35:50,432

um I don't.

510

00:35:50,432 --> 00:35:51,079

oh

511

00:35:51,079 --> 00:35:53,524

come through the how the hallowed halls on this way.

512

00:35:53,524 --> 00:36:09,025

Well at one point well it was already actually he was uh, he was already in the regular

program, uh, shameless was one one dude That because they were talking about rebranding

513

00:36:09,025 --> 00:36:14,800

shameless and this was you know, it's around the drew mcintyre time too.

514

00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:15,122

Really?

515

00:36:15,122 --> 00:36:21,216

It was a couple years maybe after one two years after um and it

516

00:36:21,216 --> 00:36:25,039

I think it just the song didn't it didn't fit.

517

00:36:25,039 --> 00:36:26,240

You know what mean?

518

00:36:26,240 --> 00:36:29,583

There was no lightning in a bottle like with broken dreams.

519

00:36:29,583 --> 00:36:33,136

um But I can't remember some of that.

520

00:36:33,136 --> 00:36:49,338

I mean, it was just so like it was just pretty rapid fire, you know, because again, Jim

was not great at giving any initial ah direction whatsoever.

521

00:36:49,619 --> 00:36:50,500

He's just like.

522

00:36:50,500 --> 00:36:51,095

oh

523

00:36:51,095 --> 00:36:53,888

You know, here's this Casio keyboard.

524

00:36:53,888 --> 00:36:56,181

Here's a really rough melody.

525

00:36:56,181 --> 00:36:59,025

And then you guys make it.

526

00:36:59,025 --> 00:37:00,857

And then I'm to get that royalty.

527

00:37:00,857 --> 00:37:02,279

Yeah.

528

00:37:02,279 --> 00:37:05,322

uh Yeah.

529

00:37:05,563 --> 00:37:06,543

Yeah.

530

00:37:07,665 --> 00:37:08,606

Yeah.

531

00:37:10,392 --> 00:37:14,432

Yeah, I was salty about that for a while until I saw that first.

532

00:37:14,451 --> 00:37:22,292

It was like one of the first Monday Night Raw's that I was able to actually sit down and

watch and had, you know, broken dreams by Shaman's Harvest.

533

00:37:22,292 --> 00:37:32,952

And then I got I had a PlayStation and my girlfriend at the time brought bought me the,

you know, one of the video games that then you could pick your own theme song.

534

00:37:32,952 --> 00:37:36,772

So everybody's theme song was broken dreams on my console.

535

00:37:37,062 --> 00:37:38,722

Hulk Hogan, broken dreams.

536

00:37:38,722 --> 00:37:40,903

Randy Savage, broken dreams.

537

00:37:42,644 --> 00:37:43,765

I love that.

538

00:37:43,765 --> 00:37:53,139

And now with a lot of the wrestlers that I've worked with over time and a lot of these,

these independents and anyone, I get to work directly with the talent, right?

539

00:37:53,139 --> 00:37:54,810

I know you're working through gym.

540

00:37:54,810 --> 00:38:02,487

Was there ever a time where you had gotten to meet Drew either before the theme was

written or after the theme was written?

541

00:38:02,487 --> 00:38:05,516

to get his feedback about, what did he think about it?

542

00:38:05,516 --> 00:38:09,224

Or has this been two ships passing in the sea over the years?

543

00:38:09,224 --> 00:38:10,225

that a lot of that.

544

00:38:10,225 --> 00:38:23,453

uh I mean we've talked online, you know, like, you know We found ourselves on someone

else's page talking about talks about We've talked a little bit back and forth.

545

00:38:23,453 --> 00:38:35,991

We've messaged each other back and forth um And then at one point we were supposed to play

the WrestleMania one of one of the WrestleMania's Maybe

546

00:38:35,991 --> 00:38:40,129

Maybe a year or two, once Broken Dreams started really taking off for them.

547

00:38:40,129 --> 00:38:46,041

We were supposed to go sit ringside, you know, do on one through that season.

548

00:38:46,357 --> 00:38:49,188

And then, know, hey, showman's harvest is here, you know, whatever.

549

00:38:49,188 --> 00:38:53,260

And then go do do do perform at WrestleMania.

550

00:38:53,561 --> 00:38:55,221

It was spun this way to us anyway.

551

00:38:55,221 --> 00:39:03,756

uh And then we actually we did get the offer and we were touring and we couldn't cancel

the tour to go do this.

552

00:39:03,756 --> 00:39:09,409

And to this day, I kind of regret not missing a few shows to go do that.

553

00:39:09,409 --> 00:39:11,640

But uh and then we just played.

554

00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:15,872

We did a tour in the UK, Ireland and Scotland.

555

00:39:16,082 --> 00:39:29,118

and um he was there at the time and but he was doing a some sort of circuit press circuit

maybe and so he was in a different place than we were the entire time so we kept trying to

556

00:39:29,118 --> 00:39:32,100

connect but no two ships passing in the night

557

00:39:32,141 --> 00:39:33,141

That's crazy too.

558

00:39:33,141 --> 00:39:35,372

And it's been years, know?

559

00:39:35,372 --> 00:39:40,174

Like that's what I think is so surprising about it is, you know, you're not talking about,

okay, cool.

560

00:39:40,174 --> 00:39:41,865

It's been like a year or two.

561

00:39:41,865 --> 00:39:47,808

You're talking about that there's been almost 10, 15 years of this song being out in the

ecosystem.

562

00:39:47,808 --> 00:39:49,968

And it's just two ships passing in the sea.

563

00:39:49,968 --> 00:39:50,389

But you know what?

564

00:39:50,389 --> 00:39:53,230

Again, two professionals doing their professional thing.

565

00:39:53,230 --> 00:39:55,931

So it maybe isn't that crazy.

566

00:39:55,931 --> 00:40:01,161

uh Did you get to meet any of the NXT guys or Bray or Undertaker when you did?

567

00:40:01,161 --> 00:40:03,722

any of the additional things.

568

00:40:04,476 --> 00:40:17,136

I if I did not have to fly I had to again had to fly out and then I was I had to be in the

studio to do a feature on somebody else's that never saw the light of day thing and so

569

00:40:17,136 --> 00:40:27,916

again I wish I would have stayed because because I was supposed to meet the undertaker and

that was my hero like there was a period of time like I would dress like the undertaker

570

00:40:27,916 --> 00:40:33,550

and you know I'd go in and scare my brothers in the middle of the night you know because

it was a prick of an older brother and

571

00:40:33,703 --> 00:40:36,284

And you know, I did do that whole thing.

572

00:40:36,284 --> 00:40:45,467

uh so, yeah, no, uh again, and I met a, I couldn't even tell you who I met because it was

such a whirlwind.

573

00:40:45,467 --> 00:40:52,169

You're up there, you got to do the song and you're in the hallway, you know, and you meet

a couple of people and a couple of wrestlers.

574

00:40:52,169 --> 00:40:59,251

And you could tell that, though, whoever they were, they were definitely up and coming

because they were very eager and happy to be there.

575

00:41:00,852 --> 00:41:01,355

Yeah.

576

00:41:01,355 --> 00:41:01,656

of stuff.

577

00:41:01,656 --> 00:41:02,246

Yeah.

578

00:41:02,246 --> 00:41:12,519

And it's interesting at the beginning of the conversation, you know, we touched on it kind

of briefly, but I did recently see that this year you guys ended up whipping out broken

579

00:41:12,519 --> 00:41:13,999

dreams live at a show.

580

00:41:13,999 --> 00:41:18,945

I remember that you were on stage and you're just like, we tried it once, didn't go so

well.

581

00:41:18,945 --> 00:41:19,961

So we're gonna try it again.

582

00:41:19,961 --> 00:41:21,161

Hope it goes better.

583

00:41:21,161 --> 00:41:22,722

And it crushed.

584

00:41:22,722 --> 00:41:27,061

But again, I assume that that would just be in the set for like,

585

00:41:27,061 --> 00:41:31,461

years but you guys crushed it on that live one so I loved it you guys could do it

586

00:41:31,461 --> 00:41:32,091

Thanks, man.

587

00:41:32,091 --> 00:41:37,646

We had a uh lawyer at the time that was like, I'm not sure you can.

588

00:41:37,646 --> 00:41:40,768

So for many years we just didn't even do it.

589

00:41:40,768 --> 00:41:52,348

to the dismay of many people that had found us through the WWE and only liked that song,

they'd come to the show and they'd be really bummed that we didn't uh perform that song.

590

00:41:52,348 --> 00:41:53,599

Well, that serves them right.

591

00:41:53,599 --> 00:41:56,661

um Yeah, so yeah, pulled it.

592

00:41:56,661 --> 00:41:57,762

Obviously we pulled it off.

593

00:41:57,762 --> 00:41:59,524

We pulled it out in Scotland and...

594

00:41:59,524 --> 00:42:00,256

uh

595

00:42:00,256 --> 00:42:04,703

We did a couple on that run, the UK run that we just did.

596

00:42:04,703 --> 00:42:11,702

But yeah, that's really the first time that we dusted her off and drug her out.

597

00:42:12,087 --> 00:42:12,577

I love it.

598

00:42:12,577 --> 00:42:20,952

But anyone that's listened to Red Hands Black Deeds, like listen, I'm going to say, if you

know Shamans Harvest and you like this, go listen to that record, go listen to any of the

599

00:42:20,952 --> 00:42:21,383

records.

600

00:42:21,383 --> 00:42:28,967

But at the same time, if somebody has heard you from WWE and says, all right, cool,

Shamans Harvest, what's next?

601

00:42:28,967 --> 00:42:33,410

What song or what records for you would you be like, you got to check out this one?

602

00:42:33,410 --> 00:42:38,622

Obviously all of them, but like right from there, what would you say is something that

someone could check out?

603

00:42:38,622 --> 00:42:48,826

if you discovered us uh on that, would suggest the song, the record that we were making at

the time we did Broken Dreams, uh which was a record called Smokin' Hearts and Broken

604

00:42:48,826 --> 00:42:49,226

Guns.

605

00:42:49,226 --> 00:43:00,631

ah And then, you know, and then we moved on into a different, like each record is so

different from the other one.

606

00:43:00,631 --> 00:43:02,572

I'm not really interested in making.

607

00:43:03,704 --> 00:43:06,484

to say, don't want to do part two.

608

00:43:07,144 --> 00:43:09,484

you know, this keeps it interesting for us.

609

00:43:09,484 --> 00:43:14,084

So, yeah, like Red Hands Black Deeds is a very analog record for us.

610

00:43:14,084 --> 00:43:18,184

Like, you know, the board was analog, all the gear was analog.

611

00:43:18,204 --> 00:43:20,204

Everything was out of the box.

612

00:43:21,304 --> 00:43:27,384

And because we went down that thing, it was a very kind of more of a cerebral record.

613

00:43:28,144 --> 00:43:33,544

And then, you know, I would say and then our newest record, Revelator is more of a

614

00:43:34,082 --> 00:43:35,873

So that's more old school.

615

00:43:35,873 --> 00:43:47,273

News records probably a little more like modern, about as modern as we get anyway, a

modern rock kind of vibe that we are the producers, a very modern guy, guy named Carl

616

00:43:47,273 --> 00:43:48,264

O'Dell who does.

617

00:43:48,264 --> 00:43:53,948

ah Yeah, You know.

618

00:43:54,179 --> 00:44:02,902

So I've never met him, but a theme that I did for, or with It Lives It Breathes, we did,

my God, was it Brian Myers?

619

00:44:02,902 --> 00:44:06,044

Yeah, we did Brian Myers entrance theme a while ago.

620

00:44:06,044 --> 00:44:16,388

He's in TNA, and he was the engineer on the back end of that, so I recorded my parts from

my studio, but you bring up Kyle, and I'm like, shit, yeah.

621

00:44:17,389 --> 00:44:18,869

Yup, he's.

622

00:44:19,694 --> 00:44:20,955

He's so good though.

623

00:44:20,955 --> 00:44:25,219

Like, you know, you record stuff in your home studio and you're like, I wonder how it's

going to sound.

624

00:44:25,219 --> 00:44:27,461

And then you give it to someone who actually knows what they're doing.

625

00:44:27,461 --> 00:44:28,782

And you're like, it sounds great.

626

00:44:28,782 --> 00:44:30,289

Why didn't I do anything?

627

00:44:30,289 --> 00:44:31,002

exactly.

628

00:44:31,002 --> 00:44:33,348

Man, he polished the shit out of it.

629

00:44:33,348 --> 00:44:34,030

It sounds great.

630

00:44:34,030 --> 00:44:34,551

Yeah.

631

00:44:34,551 --> 00:44:35,942

Yeah, I love that.

632

00:44:35,942 --> 00:44:36,382

Cool.

633

00:44:36,382 --> 00:44:38,543

So I usually ask people two questions.

634

00:44:38,543 --> 00:44:40,936

You've been so awesome with hanging out with us today.

635

00:44:40,936 --> 00:44:46,029

So I will just leave you with the last one here, my friend, the last one that I ask

everybody who's on the show.

636

00:44:46,029 --> 00:44:52,014

If you had to create a playlist with three songs that represent you as a person, what

would those three songs be?

637

00:44:52,014 --> 00:44:55,076

And yes, you can use one of your songs as well.

638

00:44:55,076 --> 00:44:57,208

If that fits the question here.

639

00:44:57,208 --> 00:44:57,498

Sure.

640

00:44:57,498 --> 00:45:01,689

Well, I'm like many music musicians can't stand to listen to their own music.

641

00:45:01,689 --> 00:45:05,510

ah Every time my wife turns it on, I'm like, no.

642

00:45:05,510 --> 00:45:21,775

ah You know, I would go um I would say Jimi Hendrix and his experience when he did Machine

Gun for me, that is a like a it's this core memory thing for me.

643

00:45:21,775 --> 00:45:26,347

um You know, I'm going to get hate for it, but.

644

00:45:26,347 --> 00:45:42,807

Pearl Jam Black, like I can just as a a 90s kid, I just remember like being in my room and

that was a song that was just on repeat, you know, screaming at the top of my lungs and

645

00:45:42,807 --> 00:45:44,427

and comfortably numb.

646

00:45:44,427 --> 00:45:46,327

You can see like this this thing.

647

00:45:46,327 --> 00:45:50,747

It's always these very dramatic, you know, these very dramatic songs.

648

00:45:50,747 --> 00:45:56,103

And I just I just love, you know, that's that's what it's kind of a shame that that's

what's

649

00:45:56,103 --> 00:46:02,529

So hard with interest music because I want to like I want to have a bit of a journey, you

know From the beginning of the song to the end.

650

00:46:02,529 --> 00:46:07,654

I want it to take me to a different place And that's that that's what I couldn't get my

head around on interest.

651

00:46:07,654 --> 00:46:09,405

We've we figured it out though

652

00:46:10,445 --> 00:46:18,761

Yeah, the entrance theme stuff is interesting because like, you know, there are people

that make full songs and do a bit of a journey, but at the same time, it's like a lot of

653

00:46:18,761 --> 00:46:26,045

the entrance themes are you've got that first 30 seconds and even then you've got like

that first 10 seconds and then that's it.

654

00:46:26,045 --> 00:46:26,236

man.

655

00:46:26,236 --> 00:46:27,726

You just need the bell.

656

00:46:28,428 --> 00:46:31,090

You know, which, by the way, is copyrighted.

657

00:46:31,090 --> 00:46:33,433

You cannot use that bell on anything.

658

00:46:33,433 --> 00:46:33,723

Yeah.

659

00:46:33,723 --> 00:46:34,254

Yeah.

660

00:46:34,254 --> 00:46:34,664

Yeah.

661

00:46:34,664 --> 00:46:38,477

Jim Johnson gets a P every time that bell rings, he gets a little to.

662

00:46:39,613 --> 00:46:40,754

That's crazy.

663

00:46:40,754 --> 00:46:42,475

That's crazy, man.

664

00:46:42,916 --> 00:46:47,679

I know, like I saw a video of him in the studio where he was like, I did that with like a

bass.

665

00:46:47,679 --> 00:46:50,201

I played the gong, but then I played the bass also.

666

00:46:50,201 --> 00:46:54,156

But the fact that he owns that specific one, that's crazy.

667

00:46:54,156 --> 00:46:56,476

yeah, well, smart man.

668

00:46:56,584 --> 00:47:06,581

I love also that you have such this conversation about kind of the totality of what you

guys, of what you've done with Shamans Harvest, with what you've done with Jim, because it

669

00:47:06,581 --> 00:47:12,620

just seems like, again, if you're looking for somebody in a band to collaborate with and

just have this time, you're the person.

670

00:47:12,620 --> 00:47:23,084

And it just seems like you and him had such a good relationship over time, too, and such a

communication that it's really great insight to seeing both your process and his process,

671

00:47:23,084 --> 00:47:23,567

too.

672

00:47:23,567 --> 00:47:24,647

yeah, I hope he's doing well.

673

00:47:24,647 --> 00:47:29,107

I haven't talked to him in a few years because, you know, life and stuff, but I hope he's

doing great.

674

00:47:29,107 --> 00:47:29,807

And I'm sure he is.

675

00:47:29,807 --> 00:47:33,267

I'm sure he's he's he's loving his life now.

676

00:47:33,376 --> 00:47:35,816

This is see this is the point though where you drop him a text.

677

00:47:35,816 --> 00:47:38,176

You're like, yo, dude, just having to talk about you.

678

00:47:38,176 --> 00:47:39,710

He's talking about you brother.

679

00:47:39,710 --> 00:47:40,322

send them.

680

00:47:40,322 --> 00:47:40,862

I'll send them.

681

00:47:40,862 --> 00:47:41,435

You send me.

682

00:47:41,435 --> 00:47:42,149

Send me a clip.

683

00:47:42,149 --> 00:47:43,409

I'm going to send it to.

684

00:47:43,434 --> 00:47:44,085

That's awesome.

685

00:47:44,085 --> 00:47:46,311

uh I'm excited.

686

00:47:46,311 --> 00:47:49,368

Well, dude, thank you so much for having a conversation with us today.

687

00:47:49,368 --> 00:47:53,521

When people want to go ahead and find you and check out all your music, where's the best

place to check them out?

688

00:47:53,521 --> 00:47:59,436

just find it on social media, I like uh Apple Music, big fan of Apple Music.

689

00:47:59,436 --> 00:48:06,821

uh And, you know, we're on all the things, though, if you want to use Spotify or whatever

you want to use, we're there.

690

00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:08,382

all the places.

691

00:48:09,185 --> 00:48:12,364

Well, Nathan, thank you so much for making the time to hang out with us today.

692

00:48:12,364 --> 00:48:13,750

Alright buddy, take care.