Shinsuke Nakamura Theme Violinist Earl Maneein on Recording the The Rising Sun, Working with CFO$

the main theme the

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stuff is on this.

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And then you had the also the acoustic part was the.

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That stuff is also this, this violin.

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how much of that did they have?

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First off, thank you for showing that.

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That's so super cool.

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When the number counts down, right?

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Uh-oh.

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like, I'm like, uh.

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I feel like that's how my kid is when he takes photos for school.

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They're just like, all right, you ready?

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Yeah.

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Right, right, right, right.

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Once the number starts, it kind of makes everything way more real.

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And then you're kind of like.

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That's, isn't that the joke too about like your kids getting uh their photos, like you pay

like hundreds of bucks for your kids to literally be like...

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Yeah, you're like, why, why, like you look so nice, you know, that's actually the, I think

the, the, the strong argument for like, like a candid photos where you just like, you just

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don't tell them, just take the picture and then that's it, because then they, they don't

make weird faces or they don't stop and go.

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Yup.

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My favorite pictures of my kids too, like look, they're in school, they do the

professional photos, but dude, my favorite photos of my kids are like when they're at a

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friend's birthday party or they're just like run around the backyard and you shoot that

photo of them, they just have like this elated face.

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You're like, dude, that's the moment.

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That's like the, have kids for this moment kind of thing.

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And it's just the most natural, coolest thing.

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So for me, yeah, absolutely.

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I'm just like, and.

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That's the thing, because you're capturing their joy or whatever is happening that's real

in the moment.

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It's not like this sort of manufactured, which I think that's really the core of it.

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That's an interesting thing about wrestling, what's manufactured, what's real, what's kind

of like...

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Maybe I know a little bit more.

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K-Fabe.

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Yep, what K-Fave, yep.

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That's what yeah, what's kfabe and then like they get off script, but it's real and then

like but clearly it's not but it is yeah anyway

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It's awesome.

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And for those who are wondering who we're talking about here and what we're going to be

talking about on the show, you guys have heard this gentleman all over the place for about

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the last decade or so, maybe a little bit less, maybe a little bit more, in a lot of

projects he's done.

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But most notably for fans of this show, as we're talking about entrance themes, if you

know one Shinsuke Nakamura, you hear his theme, you hear that amazing violin, you hear

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that amazing piece, that violin was recorded.

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by my guest today.

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Thank you so much for being on the show, Earl.

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Thanks for having me, John.

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It's real pleasure to be here.

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Absolutely, yeah.

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And we'll talk about Shinsuke Nakamura's theme a little bit here in a second.

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But before we had been talking, like we've talked on and off over the years, but you know,

one thing that I remember just hearing you upfront is the tone that you bring to the

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violin.

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was actually, as many of you know, my wife and I were in a music school and I was talking

to one of my students here, one of my adult students, and he was like, yeah, I'm going to

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learn the fiddle.

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And I'm just like, I'm actually interviewing a gentleman tomorrow who plays violin and

viola.

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But I'm just like, I...

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wouldn't say that he plays fiddle, but with how aggressive he can be on that violin.

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Like he can be classical and he can be really emotive in a sensitive way.

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But when you hear this guy rip, I'm just like, I don't know if that charts into fiddle

territory or if it has nothing to do with the tone of it or it has to do with like what

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you're playing.

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But I was just like, I'm interviewing this guy who can basically do it all.

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And you have done it all.

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So I want you to tell the people a little bit about some of the things that you've done.

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over time a little bit about your sound and we'll dive a little bit into that.

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Sure, thanks.

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Okay, so, I guess, for all intents and purposes, I'm a violinist.

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That's what I do for a living.

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That's my job, which is, I guess is maybe synonymous with bum.

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Because I don't really, know, basically get texts or emails, you know, because nobody gets

on the phone anymore, and I get told to show up at a certain place at a certain time with

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a wooden box.

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and I go to the studio and do this and then numbers bigger numbers appear in the sort of

fantasy world of banks

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In those establishments we call financial institutions.

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those financial institutions.

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Yeah, so that's basically my job.

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I've been playing the violin since I was five, maybe even four, I forget, but four or

five, which makes me be playing the violin for about 43 years now.

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That's such a good tenure to be playing the instrument.

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It's a lot of hate to say it.

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don't even you do the math people people over there can do the math.

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Whatever.

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It's been a long time.

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Uh, I did the whole thing.

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I went through I went through conservatory training with the private lessons from when I

was a kid and then I went to college for this.

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I went to a new school.

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I went to CUNY Queens College for my undergrad.

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And then I went to the Manus School of Music, which was a uh

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It's a division of the New School University for my graduate work.

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have a master's degree in violin performance, which is, one could argue the usefulness of

that, but let's not for this podcast.

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And then I just have been working professionally ever since.

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I was in a bunch of bands.

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uh...

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and i also grew up in the hardcore scene and metal uh...

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sort of extreme music kind of stuff ever since i was like maybe i want to say i started

going to my first underground shows when i was maybe thirteen thirteen going to sort of

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vfw halls and church basements and uh...

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quick, you talked about hardcore.

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We're just going to real quick for everybody watching, you can see this, but for everybody

listening, I'd be remiss if I didn't mention your Converge

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So I didn't wear this on purpose, just sort of inertia.

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But yes, uh you know, huge, huge converge.

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Dillinger, my quartet actually collaborated a lot with the Dillinger Escape Plan.

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We're on their last album.

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We did a whole sort of a I guess you can call it a tribute album.

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did.

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um

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their album, One of Us is the Killer.

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It was a pandemic project.

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John and I, were speaking about COVID before we shortly before we came on.

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And one of the big projects was that I did during the pandemic was uh was Ben Weinman,

call me up because, you know, we're friends and he was just like, I have an idea.

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You're clearly, you know, you're doing nothing and I'm doing nothing.

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And why don't we?

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like how that conversation starts.

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Hey, I got an idea.

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You're not doing anything.

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What do you got after that?

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No, that's actually what Ben said to me.

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He called me up.

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Wait, are we allowed to curse on this podcast or am I watching myself?

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What's going on?

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Right.

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So, right.

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So he calls me and he goes, you know, there's the niceties of like, whatever, how's your

family?

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How's your family?

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Like, whatever.

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And then he goes and he goes, what are you doing?

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I go fucking nothing.

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What what what are you doing?

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Right.

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And he's like, similarly, fucking nothing.

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But like, I have a I have an idea.

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And why don't you, you know, you've already worked with us and how would you feel about

arranging and recording a whole sort of string quartet version of One of Us is the Killer.

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And so I did it and it was that was that was a pandemic project.

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So basically, I've been involved in hardcore and uh heavy metal sort of, you know, since I

was maybe, yeah, like I'd say 13.

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uh

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going to underground shows, kind of just being really, really viscerally involved and

loving that music as a sort of actual musical home for me, while schizophrenically also

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kind of going to violin school uh and learning Western European classical and its sort of,

you know, descendant sort of music.

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That's...

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that too, because even when I went to music school, my wife and I met at Florida Atlantic

University years and years ago.

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Her master's in piano performance.

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My background is in music composition, technology.

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They called it commercial music back then.

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was kind of a degree that merged all those paths.

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it's one of those things that, and there's a couple of things I'll touch on, but the first

thing is the fact that even though you have people that are rooted in learning like the

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jazz style, the classical style, because there's so much music out there, now everybody is

into.

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excuse me, all these different styles, right?

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So it's like, you can have somebody who's in the practice room for four or five, six hours

learning Chopin, you know, learning Satie and all that.

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And then all of sudden you see them at a Converge show or you see them at a local

hand-to-hand show and you're just like, man, that's really cool.

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And I think that when I was growing up, before I'd even gotten really into like, you know,

studied music and whatnot, I was always just like, if you like classical, kind of what you

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do.

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If you like rock, that's what you do.

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Right.

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It was also like when I was young, I was like, you can either be a rhythm guitarist or

lead guitarist and you're kind of predestined at birth for what you're going to do.

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You know, then I learned my first solo and I was like, completely different.

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But I felt like when I was younger, there was no way that those would cross at all.

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And then as I got to college and you get to meet a lot of different people like, you have

someone who loves Dream Theater, you have someone who loves Porcupine Tree, and then

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they're listening to Miles Davis and then Amen.

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Look at that.

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They're looking at classical.

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So it's like I think we're in real kind of special time there.

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And

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throughout your career, throughout my career, it's like you have all these musicians now

who are into a variety of things.

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And then obviously comes the whole, cool, what do we do with that?

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And that's where you get these records.

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Like you said, this uh string version of Dillinger Escape Plan or all the myriad of

different things that come out are these hodgepodge styles now.

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just label it progressive and then they can do anything they want.

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Right or crossover or whatever.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I could not agree with you more John like a thousand percent man like I think and when we

were I don't know I don't actually know exactly how old you are so in with my generation

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I still remember CDs.

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Nice, nice.

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Yeah, so I mean, when I was in like, it was actually weird drama.

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Like when I was in violin school, like a couple times I would like sort of show up with

like I was definitely the weird kid there and like odd, odd boy out because I would show

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up with, you know, like it's it's we were going to hardcore shows and part of that is

moshing and you kind of sometimes get a little hurt a little bit like so.

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I definitely remember it was a really big deal.

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One time I had a black eye like is like some kid backfisted me.

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You know, like whatever.

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It's kind of mutually agreed upon sort of thing.

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And it was a big deal.

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Like it was like, what is this crazy kid in in school?

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Like no one else is doing this.

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And also the fact like I was it was definitely if you're playing classical music, you're

playing classical music.

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And there's a wider issue that we can talk about or not.

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about what I think sort of a class sort of divides uh an aspirational kind of like if

you're a lot of times if you were doing classical music it was you know classical music is

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derived from like music of royals like commissioning you know like who was in who was

Mozart's boss who was Bach's boss like you know the Margrave of Brandenburg whatever right

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and so you're writing this music that's intended to be sort of existing in a certain

social class

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Right?

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then metal and hardcore is definitely a folk music of our time.

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Not folk music like Woody Guthrie, right, or whatever, but like folk music of the people

and of a certain social class.

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So then you have this kind of like real um conflict, I think, that is apparent in there.

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And I definitely was at...

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I believe that kind of at the forefront of that, like I got a lot of weird looks and sort

of like pushback and like kind of a thing.

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And I think what you're talking about is such a good thing because of base, maybe maybe

the Internet or maybe like, you know, like of of this sort of blurring of genres.

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It's not that you have to play a certain style.

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Incidentally within classical music there was even that divide of like if you're are you

playing like romantic?

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you doing brahms?

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Are you doing brahms and bar brahms this kind of a thing?

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Beethoven or are you an early music person and you're only doing Monteverdi and uh you

know and and Bieber and Before Bach right so there was definitely this it was even like

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the sort of really hard divide there

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which maybe seems to also be going away.

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And so I think the fact that these genres are getting blurred, that you can be into

dubstep and metal and, you know, pop and classical, kind of like ingesting the whole, the

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macro is just fucking awesome.

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I think that's a great development and that's one of the better things about our crazy

time that we're in, I think.

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too.

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And I think it's really cool that you brought up the history of like where a certain music

comes from.

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Because I think a lot of the times, you know, a lot of people will learn the music in a

conservatory or they'll learn it, you know, from their teacher.

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But we don't often go over the history of it.

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Right.

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And that's not instrument specific.

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But I mean, we don't think about like when I talk to my students, I try to make it a point

of saying that a lot of the ways that we learn guitar can differ guitar teacher to guitar

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teacher, mainly because we are such a rebellious instrument.

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Right.

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When we on guitar,

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were years and years ago before guitars were there and lutes and everything.

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People were learning by sitting together.

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They were sheet music, yeah, for us.

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But a lot of the times, of positions of the guitar, you're learning watching somebody,

right?

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People can learn by tab, they can learn by ear, they can see scales on a

three-note-per-string thing, they can see it in intervals.

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There's lots of different ways to do it, but just because of the layout of the instrument,

you have this different dynamic.

213

00:14:56,955 --> 00:15:01,017

And I remember when I was going through school, it was around like 2009-ish time.

214

00:15:03,860 --> 00:15:11,135

And I remember, I feel like we were the generation right when YouTube was starting to

become this place that people were using as a resource hub, right?

215

00:15:11,135 --> 00:15:14,107

Before that it was just kind of like, you're uploading, I'm the juggernaut, bitch!

216

00:15:14,107 --> 00:15:16,349

Now you're uploading everything else, right?

217

00:15:16,349 --> 00:15:20,231

Like, cool, here's a lick, and people are starting to come up with those.

218

00:15:20,231 --> 00:15:25,315

And I felt bad for the teachers in hindsight, and kind of then too.

219

00:15:25,315 --> 00:15:33,540

But, you know, me, I came from a very not-schooled kind of guitar-ing, so, sort of speak,

I was taking lessons in the back of music.

220

00:15:33,540 --> 00:15:42,297

store, which is not dog and I love my teacher to death, but I mean then you go into an

element of like the college side of it and I think the teachers at that time were trying

221

00:15:42,297 --> 00:15:49,143

to wrangle, okay, you have a lot of these kids coming in who can play Dream Theater and

I'm just using them as kind of like an overarching example, right?

222

00:15:49,143 --> 00:15:55,427

You could play these technical things, but then on the other side you're having trouble

with like a G major scale.

223

00:15:55,427 --> 00:15:56,082

Mm-hmm.

224

00:15:56,082 --> 00:15:56,538

Right.

225

00:15:56,538 --> 00:16:05,523

lay these eight finger tapping lines, but when I put the C major scale in front of you

just to read it, you're sitting there being like, I have no idea what's going on.

226

00:16:05,523 --> 00:16:15,167

And, you know, it was such a different dynamic of those teachers being like, well, I also,

you can do the rock stuff that you want, you can do the metal stuff that you want, but you

227

00:16:15,167 --> 00:16:16,948

also have to learn jazz.

228

00:16:16,948 --> 00:16:19,639

And it's just like that ended up having to take priority.

229

00:16:19,639 --> 00:16:26,104

And I remember for me, it was a little bit difficult for a lot of like, you know, my

people in my classes and whatnot, because there was this weird divide.

230

00:16:26,104 --> 00:16:35,192

But now I think in like 2025 there's so many different styles and so many people even like

such as yourself that you know You play violin, but you also play electric violin There's

231

00:16:35,192 --> 00:16:46,182

a lot of people who have now taken like violin viola cello and have made that a staple of

their sound using effects changing styles All those kinds of things so Going almost 15

232

00:16:46,182 --> 00:16:46,691

years later.

233

00:16:46,691 --> 00:16:51,224

Let's say 15 20 years or so The math is wrong than that, but you get what I'm saying.

234

00:16:51,224 --> 00:16:55,948

You now have all of these different Influences that come into it and you're like, hey

235

00:16:55,948 --> 00:16:57,660

You don't just have to do this.

236

00:16:57,660 --> 00:17:00,272

You should still study these styles because they're important.

237

00:17:00,272 --> 00:17:03,704

And history is important to know where you've come from and where you're going.

238

00:17:03,704 --> 00:17:05,656

And there's a lot to learn in those.

239

00:17:05,716 --> 00:17:09,850

But you don't have to feel like you're locked down into a traditional style anymore.

240

00:17:09,850 --> 00:17:11,902

You can merge it with everything.

241

00:17:11,902 --> 00:17:16,345

And I think more people also take those skills and transfer them into lots of these

different things.

242

00:17:16,345 --> 00:17:18,226

So, long spiel.

243

00:17:18,327 --> 00:17:20,944

I think it's really cool where music is in 2025.

244

00:17:20,944 --> 00:17:21,814

I agree.

245

00:17:21,814 --> 00:17:22,224

agree.

246

00:17:22,224 --> 00:17:26,876

And in a weird way, there's a lot to say that we will not say here, I think.

247

00:17:26,876 --> 00:17:39,609

like, in terms of like, you know, the internet kind of being the great uh sort of like

equalizer in a way where it doesn't really like those things don't exist now because you

248

00:17:39,609 --> 00:17:40,630

have access to everything.

249

00:17:40,630 --> 00:17:44,701

And it can be a negative thing sometimes, this sort of access to everything.

250

00:17:44,701 --> 00:17:49,422

But in this regard, I think it's an overwhelming positive.

251

00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:58,945

that you have access to everything you can see what so and so what what you know, like not

that I'm into it, but I'm into it just listening, but I can't do it like you can you can

252

00:17:58,945 --> 00:18:01,696

check out this Mongolian throat singer.

253

00:18:02,297 --> 00:18:09,361

Just I just to click this and like like, wow, that that guy is doing crazy shit, you know,

like, and that's it.

254

00:18:09,361 --> 00:18:11,141

That's that's that simple.

255

00:18:11,182 --> 00:18:11,947

So.

256

00:18:11,947 --> 00:18:22,976

And now we're going to do a little bit of a dovetail into a bit of what the audience for

the entrance themes here is going to really be excited about too, because you are the guy

257

00:18:22,976 --> 00:18:24,557

that does it all, right?

258

00:18:24,557 --> 00:18:31,103

But many of the people who are listening to this show are familiar with your work on

Shinsuke Nakamura's theme.

259

00:18:31,103 --> 00:18:34,405

I know that's how I became familiar with you too, because...

260

00:18:34,566 --> 00:18:38,906

back when that theme came out, a lot of us were starting to do covers, right?

261

00:18:38,906 --> 00:18:40,246

And I'm sitting there listening to the song.

262

00:18:40,246 --> 00:18:44,846

I have a cover that I did years ago, which I think was in 2016.

263

00:18:44,966 --> 00:18:51,125

So that was kind of my foray into doing music in some sort of wrestling perspective, doing

covers.

264

00:18:51,546 --> 00:18:57,006

Basically me listening to you going, OK, what's he doing and how does this work?

265

00:18:57,006 --> 00:19:02,646

And I'm on guitar and, you know, people have done things afterwards in the same vein and

it's cool.

266

00:19:02,646 --> 00:19:04,640

But you got the chance to work with

267

00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:10,223

CFOs on Nakamura's The Rising Sun and it's still an iconic theme.

268

00:19:10,223 --> 00:19:17,707

It's gone through lots of different transitions whether he's a good guy or a bad guy or

whatnot but your violin is always there.

269

00:19:17,707 --> 00:19:21,449

Your violin playing in your music is such a staple for him.

270

00:19:21,449 --> 00:19:26,072

So with that, you got the...

271

00:19:26,072 --> 00:19:29,584

how did you get the call to start working with CFOs on that track?

272

00:19:29,584 --> 00:19:31,335

Okay, so here's the interesting thing.

273

00:19:31,335 --> 00:19:40,839

As somebody who's not actually into wrestling, know, uh WWE, like I only know like the big

things, it was just another gig.

274

00:19:40,839 --> 00:19:48,068

I don't even remember who called me, really, but it was just kind of like what I was

saying, alluding to earlier, where like, you get a text, right?

275

00:19:48,068 --> 00:19:52,164

And you go, oh, show up here at this time and place.

276

00:19:53,014 --> 00:19:54,555

And that's it, right?

277

00:19:54,555 --> 00:19:54,966

And I...

278

00:19:54,966 --> 00:19:56,266

uh

279

00:19:56,970 --> 00:20:05,486

I think whoever called me knew that I was an electric violinist also and they were like,

can you bring both instruments?

280

00:20:05,486 --> 00:20:08,938

So I have both here.

281

00:20:08,958 --> 00:20:14,086

So the instrument that's used on the Nakamura theme is this.

282

00:20:14,086 --> 00:20:15,188

Look at that!

283

00:20:16,146 --> 00:20:20,486

So this is a seven string electric violin.

284

00:20:20,486 --> 00:20:22,277

made by a guy named John Jordan.

285

00:20:22,277 --> 00:20:24,177

forget the exact town he lives, doesn't matter.

286

00:20:24,177 --> 00:20:29,997

Anyway, but he, and it's interesting that you were saying that you were covering this

using a guitar.

287

00:20:29,997 --> 00:20:44,057

And a lot of what I started doing was because I'm a metalhead and a hardcore kid, but I

just gravitate towards the violin more.

288

00:20:44,057 --> 00:20:46,537

I mean, can play, oops, sorry, I just hit my own mic.

289

00:20:46,537 --> 00:20:49,857

can play the guitar also, right?

290

00:20:49,857 --> 00:20:51,022

As you can see, but.

291

00:20:51,022 --> 00:20:53,494

but I'm just way better at the violin.

292

00:20:53,494 --> 00:20:58,959

So my whole thing was that like I was doing metal on the violin.

293

00:20:58,959 --> 00:20:59,789

So it was really fun.

294

00:20:59,789 --> 00:21:04,063

So I was taking inherently originally guitar language.

295

00:21:04,063 --> 00:21:14,071

So it's really funny that you're saying you were like covering the violin parts on the

guitar because it's basically the circle coming all the way back around because basically

296

00:21:14,131 --> 00:21:18,555

I was doing guitar riffs on the violin.

297

00:21:18,555 --> 00:21:20,536

So if I'm going to flip it on.

298

00:21:20,536 --> 00:21:21,316

Sure.

299

00:21:21,718 --> 00:21:30,112

And by the way too, just from the guitar perspective, a seven string guitar that I would

use would be standard EADGBE, but then the low would be a B.

300

00:21:30,112 --> 00:21:32,255

What's the tuning on a seven string?

301

00:21:33,898 --> 00:21:35,178

Totally kind, yeah.

302

00:21:35,178 --> 00:21:43,081

E, A, D, G, uh C, F, B-flat.

303

00:21:43,081 --> 00:21:43,852

Okay, cool cool.

304

00:21:43,852 --> 00:21:47,662

So still kind of in fifths, like you're still running that, Yeah.

305

00:21:47,662 --> 00:21:49,254

but it's reversed, right?

306

00:21:49,254 --> 00:21:53,960

So instead of like the fifths ascending, it's descending, right?

307

00:21:53,960 --> 00:22:01,028

So it's funny, cause like when you like on a power chord on a guitar, you do this for

like, you know, like an E, right?

308

00:22:01,629 --> 00:22:02,550

Right?

309

00:22:03,592 --> 00:22:04,134

Right.

310

00:22:04,134 --> 00:22:06,488

I'm going to pull my guitar out.

311

00:22:06,488 --> 00:22:07,408

Yeah.

312

00:22:07,549 --> 00:22:07,839

Yeah.

313

00:22:07,839 --> 00:22:12,506

On guitar, you would kind of do it like this, where if you're doing a power chord in

standard, it'd be this kind of thing, right?

314

00:22:12,506 --> 00:22:13,838

So you'd be making it like this.

315

00:22:13,838 --> 00:22:14,128

Yeah.

316

00:22:14,128 --> 00:22:17,813

Unless you're doing it in reverse, in which case you could do the fourth like that.

317

00:22:17,813 --> 00:22:18,345

Yeah.

318

00:22:18,345 --> 00:22:27,237

it's reversed on the violin see I only have one finger can you hear that by the way?

319

00:22:27,237 --> 00:22:35,287

oh so yeah I didn't really I haven't we haven't set it up so it like is actually record

you know so the Nakamura theme

320

00:22:43,198 --> 00:22:43,408

Right?

321

00:22:43,408 --> 00:22:44,999

So that was recorded with this.

322

00:22:45,340 --> 00:22:55,449

The guys in CFO ran my electric violin through their DAWs and their setups, which I can't

speak to.

323

00:22:55,449 --> 00:23:00,593

So I don't really know exactly what their plugins were or what.

324

00:23:00,593 --> 00:23:01,554

So I don't really know.

325

00:23:01,554 --> 00:23:08,620

But it was, you know, I'm assuming it was some kind of like amp sim, you know, like

whatever.

326

00:23:09,501 --> 00:23:09,909

Yeah.

327

00:23:09,909 --> 00:23:10,712

And

328

00:23:10,712 --> 00:23:11,503

use.

329

00:23:11,624 --> 00:23:12,084

Whatever.

330

00:23:12,084 --> 00:23:12,394

Yeah.

331

00:23:12,394 --> 00:23:14,186

So but this is basically.

332

00:23:14,186 --> 00:23:30,105

The like I said, the circle, it's it's it's me taking from guitar land and like they had

the riff charted out on their keyboards and they were like, what kind of sounds can we

333

00:23:30,105 --> 00:23:31,607

kind of come up with together?

334

00:23:31,607 --> 00:23:40,034

do this and I was like well we can try this we can try we went through a whole bunch of

it's been it's been years now so don't really remember exactly right but it was basically

335

00:23:40,034 --> 00:23:44,597

I did this you know did the what if I did this low

336

00:23:50,052 --> 00:23:56,504

right, take their keyboard riff, what was originally written on, you know, on their MIDI

stuff.

337

00:23:56,504 --> 00:24:01,465

Because when I came into the session, it was all charted out just on the computer.

338

00:24:01,465 --> 00:24:06,497

And it was all kind of like a very dubstep-y sort of a thing, which remained.

339

00:24:06,497 --> 00:24:13,699

It's definitely, you know, a dubstep-heavy kind of, especially the synths that are there.

340

00:24:13,879 --> 00:24:15,570

You know, and yeah.

341

00:24:15,570 --> 00:24:24,476

real quick before we keep going on that too, one thing that's cool about that violin sound

too, for those who may be instrumentalists too, with guitar you have frets, right?

342

00:24:24,476 --> 00:24:34,023

So when you're sliding into notes, you still, you have a little bit of like this movement,

but it's not like where it's violin, where you're literally able to seamlessly go into the

343

00:24:34,023 --> 00:24:34,684

note, right?

344

00:24:34,684 --> 00:24:44,040

It's like, the sound that you get, I feel like the articulations that you did on that were

like so perfect for this theme, and you could only do that on violin.

345

00:24:44,228 --> 00:24:51,211

Well, you know, so the funny thing is, so the guys obviously, it's not, I don't think it

was on purpose.

346

00:24:51,792 --> 00:24:55,453

But now that I'm thinking about, let me put it on standby so you don't have this.

347

00:24:57,054 --> 00:25:10,280

So, um it's not on purpose, but I think what is also cool is that so, like, to

oversimplify, there is...

348

00:25:10,710 --> 00:25:23,437

a certain type of sliding that goes on in like in in Japanese in some kinds of Japanese

music not all right so it's evocative like if it's like it's to oversimplify but if

349

00:25:23,437 --> 00:25:39,556

somebody wants to like evoke some quote orientalist I mean I'm bordering off like you know

like like in a uh sonic uh landscape right sonic scape on this um

350

00:25:39,704 --> 00:25:48,747

a slide done in a certain way would evoke this kind of oh like feeling there.

351

00:25:48,747 --> 00:25:49,187

Right.

352

00:25:49,187 --> 00:25:56,189

So I don't I don't think it was on purpose, but it was kind of like accidentally

discovered, I think, in the process to what you're talking about.

353

00:25:56,189 --> 00:25:57,449

So that's there.

354

00:25:57,449 --> 00:25:59,550

And that's kind of cool.

355

00:25:59,730 --> 00:26:01,220

And uh yeah.

356

00:26:01,220 --> 00:26:02,911

So then we did that.

357

00:26:02,911 --> 00:26:05,292

And they were like, that's really, really sweet.

358

00:26:05,292 --> 00:26:06,392

Can you

359

00:26:06,976 --> 00:26:19,814

But we want a little bit of a different sound also for the for the theme and so that was

done on On this which is actually the acoustic um

360

00:26:19,812 --> 00:26:23,777

The the main theme was not done on an electric violin the main theme the

361

00:26:35,055 --> 00:26:37,944

stuff is on this.

362

00:26:37,986 --> 00:26:38,447

Right.

363

00:26:38,447 --> 00:26:39,126

And then the

364

00:26:39,126 --> 00:26:43,898

ask, because when you brought up the electric, I was like, I hear where the electric would

come in.

365

00:26:43,898 --> 00:26:49,580

But in some of the videos that they did covering it, I was like, yeah, I'm pretty sure

that I saw you using the acoustic.

366

00:26:49,580 --> 00:26:55,422

And I was like, I didn't know if that was maybe like B-roll from afterwards when you were

just kind of figuring it out, or if it was like, OK, cool.

367

00:26:55,422 --> 00:26:59,374

Because it sounded like that was the acoustic, and then you had the layer of the electric

under it.

368

00:26:59,374 --> 00:26:59,766

Yeah.

369

00:26:59,766 --> 00:27:01,057

Yes, that is, yeah, that's correct.

370

00:27:01,057 --> 00:27:01,948

That's absolutely correct.

371

00:27:01,948 --> 00:27:05,171

And then you had the also the acoustic part was the.

372

00:27:08,816 --> 00:27:12,646

That stuff is also this, this violin.

373

00:27:12,646 --> 00:27:14,387

how much of that did they have?

374

00:27:14,387 --> 00:27:16,048

First off, thank you for showing that.

375

00:27:16,048 --> 00:27:17,409

That's so super cool.

376

00:27:17,409 --> 00:27:25,614

uh Second, how much leeway did you have to add like your own melodic contour or your own

articulations to it?

377

00:27:25,614 --> 00:27:26,123

Okay.

378

00:27:26,123 --> 00:27:36,999

actually a lot um the CFO guys were like super cool they I mean like they wrote all of the

the things it was all laid out for me by the time like you know it wasn't on sheet music

379

00:27:36,999 --> 00:27:49,757

but it was on their MIDI controllers and they were like we got this thing we kind of hear

violin here what can you do for this this this kind of stuff and I just basically took it

380

00:27:49,757 --> 00:27:51,319

and I kind of put my own

381

00:27:51,319 --> 00:28:01,449

uh vibe on it, like understanding that this is again, not a wrestling fan really much, but

but I understand deeply that this is hype music.

382

00:28:01,971 --> 00:28:02,691

Right.

383

00:28:02,691 --> 00:28:04,393

That like I know that this is hype music.

384

00:28:04,393 --> 00:28:13,563

This is this is what gets the crowd stoked that this guy is coming out and like, how are

we going to build this excitement?

385

00:28:13,633 --> 00:28:21,166

for this there, you know, so they already laid the groundwork, you know, obviously the CFO

guys already had all their, it's already was all charted out.

386

00:28:21,166 --> 00:28:30,630

um But when I said, I think I wanted, if you listen to the full track, there's definitely

me taking a bunch of solos.

387

00:28:30,687 --> 00:28:31,607

That's what I was gonna ask.

388

00:28:31,607 --> 00:28:36,169

Yeah, cause there are points in, like, let's say you just call it like A section and B

section, right?

389

00:28:36,169 --> 00:28:42,152

Just to simplify it, A section being the main melody, B section being the part where

you're riffing up a little bit or soloing.

390

00:28:42,152 --> 00:28:44,352

In those solos, those, didn't have written up.

391

00:28:44,352 --> 00:28:47,164

They were just like, all right, cool, this is blank, do your thing.

392

00:28:47,164 --> 00:28:49,127

And then you're like, I can do my thing.

393

00:28:49,127 --> 00:28:50,455

I got you.

394

00:28:50,455 --> 00:28:51,325

Cool.

395

00:28:51,913 --> 00:28:52,203

right.

396

00:28:52,203 --> 00:28:56,215

So the main things that were pre-written was the actual...

397

00:28:56,456 --> 00:28:58,797

It was...

398

00:29:00,258 --> 00:29:01,718

This was pre-written.

399

00:29:04,075 --> 00:29:09,257

That was written the that was already written to.

400

00:29:09,257 --> 00:29:15,680

um I'm not sure the electric violin thing was actually.

401

00:29:16,081 --> 00:29:19,962

It might not have been and we might have done that together.

402

00:29:20,383 --> 00:29:22,263

And then the.

403

00:29:23,344 --> 00:29:28,766

You'll have to ask somebody else and then and then the the.

404

00:29:34,089 --> 00:29:37,343

All that, like the dive bomb in, that was me.

405

00:29:37,343 --> 00:29:45,231

So that was just doing a bunch of takes and in the control room, the guys being like, yo,

that was dope.

406

00:29:45,231 --> 00:29:48,054

Or, you know, like, or let's maybe let's take that again.

407

00:29:48,054 --> 00:29:55,622

you know, you know, you know, I think it was a very fast session.

408

00:29:55,622 --> 00:29:57,423

um

409

00:29:58,335 --> 00:30:04,135

It was funny, ah got, you know, uh a guy showed up that was not CFO's guy.

410

00:30:04,135 --> 00:30:14,646

It was actually the WWE guy showed up with like a legal pad and like literally the suit

showed up and was like, well, sign this contract and you have no rights and this is your

411

00:30:14,646 --> 00:30:14,887

money.

412

00:30:14,887 --> 00:30:16,858

Thank you.

413

00:30:17,992 --> 00:30:19,520

Just quick and that's it, yeah.

414

00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:20,298

uh

415

00:30:20,298 --> 00:30:21,328

it.

416

00:30:21,588 --> 00:30:22,748

again, not as a wrestler.

417

00:30:22,748 --> 00:30:24,609

I had no idea how big this was.

418

00:30:24,609 --> 00:30:25,209

None.

419

00:30:25,209 --> 00:30:28,790

For me, it was at the time it was just like another session.

420

00:30:28,790 --> 00:30:30,321

Like it was like, OK, well, I'm just going to go in.

421

00:30:30,321 --> 00:30:31,731

I'm going to do this thing.

422

00:30:31,731 --> 00:30:32,431

Right.

423

00:30:32,431 --> 00:30:33,511

And then the.

424

00:30:34,332 --> 00:30:35,212

No.

425

00:30:35,912 --> 00:30:42,553

No, um it was it was it was through word of mouth, I think they knew of me and like what I

do.

426

00:30:42,553 --> 00:30:46,094

um And then that was it.

427

00:30:46,094 --> 00:30:49,419

I just I went home and I was happy to get my uh

428

00:30:49,419 --> 00:30:52,299

my little fee for actually.

429

00:30:52,299 --> 00:30:53,448

OK, so here's the funny thing.

430

00:30:53,448 --> 00:30:55,974

uh I got it.

431

00:30:55,974 --> 00:30:58,198

Should I say how much so I got I got.

432

00:30:58,289 --> 00:31:00,649

you on how transparent you can or want to be.

433

00:31:00,649 --> 00:31:01,219

I don't mind.

434

00:31:01,219 --> 00:31:05,803

All right, so I got paid 550 bucks for that session, right?

435

00:31:05,803 --> 00:31:10,847

So it was like a 40 minute, I was there for about 40 minutes, right?

436

00:31:11,008 --> 00:31:22,277

And the funny thing is, is that like you go in and you kind of do the thing and uh it's

such a huge song.

437

00:31:22,277 --> 00:31:25,700

Like my friends were like, you only got paid that and it's that big.

438

00:31:25,700 --> 00:31:27,221

And I'm like, but you know what?

439

00:31:29,747 --> 00:31:30,630

But you know what, too?

440

00:31:30,630 --> 00:31:36,253

Like, I'll say this, and I've always been somebody who...

441

00:31:36,253 --> 00:31:40,905

has been grateful to be musically active and busy pretty frequently.

442

00:31:40,905 --> 00:31:43,857

And I think that a lot of people don't think about it like that.

443

00:31:43,857 --> 00:31:48,699

You know, they think about obviously everything that you see like, you need to get

royalties, you need to get this.

444

00:31:48,699 --> 00:31:51,000

And different people do different things differently.

445

00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:55,012

Different companies do different things differently, different composers, different

musicians.

446

00:31:55,012 --> 00:31:55,752

Right.

447

00:31:55,752 --> 00:32:06,157

And when you're saying that you got paid, first off, to for anyone thinking that 40

minutes is weird, session musicians can go in and like an hour take like 17

448

00:32:06,157 --> 00:32:14,977

takes and they're all perfect like you and I remember one of my favorite stories is

hearing I forget his name but he's a session guitarist he for the goo goo dolls he was

449

00:32:14,977 --> 00:32:24,197

like yeah for Iris I was in there I took three takes and they were like see you later just

like but that's the thing right is like when you're a session musician you it sounds like

450

00:32:24,197 --> 00:32:30,438

a little but you're there for 40 minutes how many people get paid 550 an hour to do

anything you know

451

00:32:30,438 --> 00:32:30,728

true.

452

00:32:30,728 --> 00:32:41,031

And then also the thing is, like, thought like, like, like, think, look, what my friends

were trying to say, like, kind of have my back on, I definitely understand, because I do

453

00:32:41,031 --> 00:32:45,452

think I brought something pretty cool that like, look, the CFOs had the thing.

454

00:32:45,512 --> 00:32:51,073

But I definitely brought a little something that is kind of cool that adds to it.

455

00:32:51,073 --> 00:32:55,944

But what I'll say is, look, I think it's all watered under the bridge.

456

00:32:55,944 --> 00:32:58,555

It's not worth like, it's not worth.

457

00:32:58,825 --> 00:33:07,144

I don't think my contribution was enough to demand more necessarily unless they were

willing to give it, which they're not because it's the WWE.

458

00:33:07,144 --> 00:33:18,636

But, um, but look, I I like for years I was getting checks for Alicia Keys for a track

that we recorded and then they nixed.

459

00:33:18,636 --> 00:33:22,069

I'm not even on the actual single.

460

00:33:22,069 --> 00:33:22,637

Sure.

461

00:33:22,637 --> 00:33:31,572

because I was in the session and because I had recorded it and because it went through the

union, I just kept on getting royalty checks for like years.

462

00:33:31,572 --> 00:33:35,594

And I'm not, if you listen to this, it's an Alicia Keys song called Superwoman.

463

00:33:35,594 --> 00:33:38,276

It's a cover of a Stevie Wonder song, right?

464

00:33:38,276 --> 00:33:43,699

And uh I'm nowhere on that, on the single.

465

00:33:43,699 --> 00:33:47,281

But I was at the recording session and I laid tracks down.

466

00:33:47,281 --> 00:33:51,063

And because they worked out their deal with 802 with the union,

467

00:33:52,139 --> 00:33:54,500

I royalty checks even though I wasn't on it.

468

00:33:54,500 --> 00:33:56,401

So I think it's sort of all water.

469

00:33:56,401 --> 00:34:03,245

My take on it is that like my friends are angrier about it than me because they love me.

470

00:34:03,245 --> 00:34:06,327

But the way I see it, it's all water under the bridge.

471

00:34:06,327 --> 00:34:08,808

There's like sometimes you win and sometimes you lose.

472

00:34:08,808 --> 00:34:10,229

And this wasn't even losing.

473

00:34:10,229 --> 00:34:12,359

I still got paid for the thing the time I was there.

474

00:34:12,359 --> 00:34:13,299

I did the thing.

475

00:34:13,299 --> 00:34:15,132

I got out and that's it.

476

00:34:15,132 --> 00:34:17,913

And it's kind of a cool, it's a cool song.

477

00:34:17,913 --> 00:34:21,162

You know, I think if, yeah, that's.

478

00:34:21,162 --> 00:34:21,727

it

479

00:34:21,727 --> 00:34:27,460

I remember for me hearing it for the first time too because I was a fan of Nakamura when

he was in New Japan, right?

480

00:34:27,460 --> 00:34:34,633

And I think a lot of people who were in love with Nakamura in New Japan wanted him to take

that and come over to WWE.

481

00:34:34,633 --> 00:34:41,016

And there was a lot of points where, you know, he did do that and he had a great theme

that also had a violin called subconscious.

482

00:34:41,016 --> 00:34:44,017

And then he came over, he has the rising sun now.

483

00:34:44,017 --> 00:34:51,441

And that first time that you saw him versus Sami Zayn and everyone's just like, what's

going to happen with Nakamura?

484

00:34:51,661 --> 00:35:00,384

don't think in modern history, knowing somebody's gonna come in, there was more pressure

on what's this entrance theme gonna be?

485

00:35:00,384 --> 00:35:06,106

And I say that as somebody who's written over 150 themes for people and different

promotions.

486

00:35:06,106 --> 00:35:19,041

I don't think that within the last, and I'll say it on the record again, within the last

20, 30 years, I don't think that there was a more pressure built for what's his entrance

487

00:35:19,041 --> 00:35:20,411

theme gonna be?

488

00:35:20,427 --> 00:35:26,307

And then it just starts, and from like the first two seconds, you're just like, all right,

this is unbelievable.

489

00:35:26,307 --> 00:35:28,227

Nakamura comes out, he does this thing.

490

00:35:28,227 --> 00:35:32,547

But like instantly, that theme in the business, we call it getting over, right?

491

00:35:32,547 --> 00:35:33,787

It becomes real popular.

492

00:35:33,787 --> 00:35:37,447

It got over, like real hard, real fast.

493

00:35:37,447 --> 00:35:38,656

And obviously, he won that.

494

00:35:38,656 --> 00:35:51,330

about the CFO guys also that's like how good their writing is too like even when I walked

in that studio I was like that's that shit's hot that's it's a hot riff so

495

00:35:51,330 --> 00:36:00,817

you've probably seen or heard it taking on all these different transitions over the years

with the different versions that Nakamura has used, different people coming in and adding

496

00:36:00,817 --> 00:36:05,460

their flair to it, like Nita Strauss, Alec Cooper, and all these different people.

497

00:36:05,460 --> 00:36:11,644

And just obviously the covers and covers and covers and covers that there are, including

my own.

498

00:36:11,705 --> 00:36:14,665

When you see the life that

499

00:36:14,665 --> 00:36:19,581

your melodies have taken over and your riffing on violin has done.

500

00:36:19,581 --> 00:36:20,583

What does that do for you?

501

00:36:20,583 --> 00:36:25,247

I don't really, I am never concerned about that sort of stuff.

502

00:36:25,889 --> 00:36:28,641

Personally, I think it's actually, you know,

503

00:36:29,618 --> 00:36:41,235

You guys ever see that ever see that um, there's this hilarious thing about Mike not not

not you know like about Mike Tyson and this little girl is interviewing him and She goes

504

00:36:41,235 --> 00:36:44,208

what do you think about your legacy as you know?

505

00:36:44,208 --> 00:36:49,830

Heavyweight champion of the world and blow all this kind of stuff and he goes like

506

00:36:50,016 --> 00:37:03,351

so fucking dark but also not he goes he goes well um i'm gonna be dead anyway and so are

you and so is everybody here so i really don't give a shit like like literally like legacy

507

00:37:03,351 --> 00:37:11,239

means nothing to me because uh it really doesn't yeah because i'm gonna be dead and so are

you and then there's little girls like kind of like standing there like there's like

508

00:37:13,090 --> 00:37:18,561

He's like, that's not the answer I was expecting at all from Tyson.

509

00:37:20,350 --> 00:37:28,415

But, but I mean, what, what Tyson was saying, maybe not, maybe not.

510

00:37:28,415 --> 00:37:37,680

I loved maybe his, his, his super direct way of saying it was off putting to some, but I

kind of, I kind of agree.

511

00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:38,760

I think we're here.

512

00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:40,041

We're just doing our best.

513

00:37:40,041 --> 00:37:45,704

Like you just try to do some shit that like makes other people happy, makes yourself

happy.

514

00:37:46,056 --> 00:38:00,597

you know that's it i think it's cool i i think it's really really cool um that other like

that that this thing is like that i've been a part of this thing that is so fucking cool

515

00:38:01,159 --> 00:38:02,079

you know

516

00:38:02,364 --> 00:38:11,958

And it's crazy too, because I would even argue that with CFOs and with that one, and I'm

putting you guys together in that element because I know that you're giving a lot of the

517

00:38:11,958 --> 00:38:13,179

credit to CFOs, right?

518

00:38:13,179 --> 00:38:17,531

But there is, it's the singer, not the song in a lot of ways, you know?

519

00:38:17,531 --> 00:38:27,006

And I think that while they came up with something incredible and would continue to come

up with pretty incredible music for uh WWE during their time, that theme doesn't come

520

00:38:27,006 --> 00:38:27,386

alive.

521

00:38:27,386 --> 00:38:30,787

Like you could, they could have just left the midi stuff in, right?

522

00:38:30,787 --> 00:38:32,543

They could have just left the violin in.

523

00:38:32,543 --> 00:38:33,393

Sure.

524

00:38:33,499 --> 00:38:43,926

I would argue controversially that that first theme will always be the best that it's

because of your playing it's because of the accents it's because of all that and You know

525

00:38:43,926 --> 00:38:52,261

even those solos there's something to be said about when you know that someone is soloing

and then there's something to be said when you know that someone is just kind of messing

526

00:38:52,261 --> 00:38:57,415

around and Like it's hot, you know, there's that bridge and you hear it in jazz all the

time, right?

527

00:38:57,415 --> 00:39:02,198

Cool The song is actually 30 seconds and people just solo for seven minutes and use all

these

528

00:39:02,198 --> 00:39:03,100

extensions and things.

529

00:39:03,100 --> 00:39:06,786

And sometimes it sounds cool, other times it's just like, alright dude, let's get back to

the head.

530

00:39:06,786 --> 00:39:09,129

Like, let's do it.

531

00:39:09,551 --> 00:39:10,298

Yeah.

532

00:39:10,298 --> 00:39:10,769

jerking off.

533

00:39:10,769 --> 00:39:11,962

Don't, no one cares.

534

00:39:11,962 --> 00:39:12,427

Right.

535

00:39:12,427 --> 00:39:12,817

yeah.

536

00:39:12,817 --> 00:39:18,302

This sounded like, and that's why I asked you, I'm like, was it written or was it just

improvised?

537

00:39:18,302 --> 00:39:20,924

Because it sounds so intentional.

538

00:39:20,924 --> 00:39:24,061

Like it sounds like, okay, cool, you sat down and you wrote this out.

539

00:39:24,061 --> 00:39:27,149

Like I could envision if you were like, nope, totally intentional.

540

00:39:27,149 --> 00:39:38,439

But again, your musicality brings to the fact of even your solos on that song were so well

put and so intentionally sounding that that's a huge testament to the work that you did.

541

00:39:38,439 --> 00:39:39,242

That's awesome.

542

00:39:39,242 --> 00:39:40,013

Thank you.

543

00:39:40,013 --> 00:39:47,241

So I'll to answer not to answer to go on, go forward with what you just said.

544

00:39:47,803 --> 00:39:55,092

Lately, I've been, you know, like one of the things I watch in my spare time is this sort

of like the Drumeo and the Musora sort of video.

545

00:39:55,092 --> 00:39:56,053

Really, really great.

546

00:39:56,053 --> 00:39:56,633

So fun.

547

00:39:56,633 --> 00:39:57,034

Right.

548

00:39:57,034 --> 00:39:58,555

And there is this.

549

00:39:59,209 --> 00:40:12,397

While I oppose it philosophically, there was this, there was a sort of on Missouri, there

was a sort of a disco proggy disco funk band covering Alice in Chains is, uh, them bones,

550

00:40:12,397 --> 00:40:13,317

right?

551

00:40:13,498 --> 00:40:25,465

And philosophically, I'm sort of against it because it's such party music and Alice in

Chains inhabits this such a, just a, such a profound darkness.

552

00:40:25,661 --> 00:40:40,491

in the music that to make it light like that kind of like I'm a little like right but but

they did at the same time on a technical level this band is on fire dude like these guys

553

00:40:40,491 --> 00:40:54,520

were like coming up with like the coolest arrangements and like bang like like right like

what if we go like and then yeah yeah and then uh

554

00:40:55,820 --> 00:41:09,116

Like it was right like suddenly all in and everything was like like on fire and this band

sounded incredible right and What I loved was one of the one of the Missouri guys in the

555

00:41:09,116 --> 00:41:21,602

control booth said for those who are just starting out and Seeing you pull all the shit

like this incredible musicianship Like just out of your head like like it's seeming like

556

00:41:21,602 --> 00:41:22,952

like that's nothing

557

00:41:22,952 --> 00:41:23,472

Right?

558

00:41:23,472 --> 00:41:24,633

Can you speak to that?

559

00:41:24,633 --> 00:41:28,894

And the lead singer said a really wonderful thing.

560

00:41:28,894 --> 00:41:42,438

he's just like, look, like these are like improv improvisation is basically like the thing

that you did a million times, like just kind of put in different places in each segment.

561

00:41:42,438 --> 00:41:42,758

Right.

562

00:41:42,758 --> 00:41:50,984

So like a lot of the hits, the horn hits that you think are common, like just out of our

ass, like, you know, like we've actually done that.

563

00:41:50,984 --> 00:41:54,646

in a slightly different context a million times before.

564

00:41:54,646 --> 00:42:01,410

If you listen to our original music, you'll hear that horn hit that we just pulled out

there in a different song.

565

00:42:01,410 --> 00:42:04,732

And we just kind of like changed the context there.

566

00:42:04,732 --> 00:42:10,055

So to piggyback on what you're saying in terms of my soloing and its improvisatory.

567

00:42:10,055 --> 00:42:14,677

Yes, I just made it up on the spot, but I also didn't.

568

00:42:15,618 --> 00:42:20,190

If that makes if you understand what I'm saying, like that, I've done this a million

times.

569

00:42:20,213 --> 00:42:22,713

that like I have, I have building blocks.

570

00:42:22,713 --> 00:42:26,006

It's like we all can speak, but we all knew our alphabet.

571

00:42:26,006 --> 00:42:33,960

And it's just because we know the alphabet and we just put sentences together and it's a

new sentence, but it's not really a new sentence.

572

00:42:34,100 --> 00:42:34,546

Yeah.

573

00:42:34,546 --> 00:42:42,300

Yeah, and I think that when it comes to improvisation and stuff, I teach it the same way

to my students, because a lot of people are just like, you're expecting me to come up with

574

00:42:42,300 --> 00:42:43,160

something?

575

00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:44,581

And I'm like, yeah, totally.

576

00:42:44,581 --> 00:42:50,463

And then you start going over like, well, you can use rhythms from this, you can do this,

or this is something that we worked on before.

577

00:42:50,463 --> 00:42:55,876

And it's just like, now you're giving it like you, I think the word that you used,

context, was massive.

578

00:42:55,876 --> 00:43:03,930

Because even like if you went back to things that you've done over the course of your

career, people could probably see something similar in Rising Sun and in some of those

579

00:43:03,930 --> 00:43:04,530

riffs and things.

580

00:43:04,530 --> 00:43:04,951

like that.

581

00:43:04,951 --> 00:43:07,394

It's like, it's so true what you said.

582

00:43:07,394 --> 00:43:13,682

And, you know, I have to, I have to dovetail back before we get into the two questions

that I ask everybody.

583

00:43:13,844 --> 00:43:17,950

Have you ever met Nakamura at all after this?

584

00:43:17,950 --> 00:43:18,981

You haven't?

585

00:43:18,981 --> 00:43:19,538

okay.

586

00:43:19,538 --> 00:43:31,734

No, it's kind of like those things where like you like, uh it's like a, it's, it's a

classic session musician situation where you never meet the person that you're on the

587

00:43:31,734 --> 00:43:33,810

album, like, uh

588

00:43:33,810 --> 00:43:43,258

It's just you don't, you know, sometimes you do sometimes, you know, like the in certain

cases, the art, the bigger artist is there and they come and they say hi and it's just

589

00:43:43,258 --> 00:43:45,650

sort of like, hey, nice to meet you, whatever.

590

00:43:45,650 --> 00:43:56,379

But I mean, it's I don't think and plus for whatever reason, internally, the WWE did not

choose me to do their live stuff like after I did the thing.

591

00:43:56,379 --> 00:44:02,549

And I remember having a conversation with one of the guys from see, I don't remember which

which one of the two of them it was.

592

00:44:02,549 --> 00:44:05,770

but they were actually between us.

593

00:44:05,791 --> 00:44:07,842

It's not a secret, like, they were disappointed.

594

00:44:07,842 --> 00:44:13,815

They were like, I don't know why management made that decision to not have you do the live

performances.

595

00:44:13,815 --> 00:44:15,996

They went with some other guys, some tall skinny dude.

596

00:44:15,996 --> 00:44:17,657

um

597

00:44:18,001 --> 00:44:27,052

doing the live things and One of the CFO guys were like that's just that's fucked I don't

like that and I'm like well I got other work, so I don't really give a shit, but I mean

598

00:44:27,052 --> 00:44:33,764

that's I mean I would have done it if you called me in time you know like but Whatever I

got you

599

00:44:33,764 --> 00:44:39,310

me watching it, was confusing though, because at that point I hadn't known specifically

that it was you doing it.

600

00:44:39,310 --> 00:44:43,574

About a year two down the line, had been like, OK, cool, is, Earl obviously did it.

601

00:44:43,574 --> 00:44:46,416

But when I saw the, I forget who it was,

602

00:45:01,308 --> 00:44:47,899

tall skinny dude that's all i remember

603

00:44:47,899 --> 00:44:58,134

Yeah, I remember that other gentleman coming out and it sounded different and it sounded

like it wasn't the original, which, you know, fine, people take different things on

604

00:44:58,134 --> 00:44:58,714

things.

605

00:44:58,714 --> 00:45:04,176

But like it was such a specific, like we talked about earlier, it was such a hyper

specific sound.

606

00:45:04,176 --> 00:45:13,161

And like even some of the ways that you would do like the improvisations, like those

slides and things, I was just like, it didn't have the same feel.

607

00:45:13,161 --> 00:45:15,662

And I was just like, is this the same guy?

608

00:45:15,662 --> 00:45:17,823

And you know, sometimes what you do on a record or what

609

00:45:17,823 --> 00:45:21,577

you do in a studio is a little bit different because you're in a controlled environment,

things like that.

610

00:45:21,577 --> 00:45:23,789

So I'm like, okay, maybe that's what happened.

611

00:45:23,789 --> 00:45:27,122

And then they had the video of you just ripping it in the studio.

612

00:45:27,122 --> 00:45:33,119

And I'm like, that's really interesting that it's not that Earl didn't do the live

performance.

613

00:45:33,119 --> 00:45:34,150

But yeah, okay.

614

00:45:34,150 --> 00:45:36,502

that was, yeah, that was weird to me too.

615

00:45:36,502 --> 00:45:38,964

So here's a lot of people.

616

00:45:38,964 --> 00:45:43,809

it's totally an internal WWE decision, which actually the CFO guys had no say in.

617

00:45:43,809 --> 00:45:51,503

Um, none because they, because they, they told me that it was like, I don't know why they

didn't call you.

618

00:45:51,503 --> 00:45:52,774

Of course, yeah.

619

00:45:52,774 --> 00:45:59,600

Well, see, what we're gonna have to do one of these days is we're gonna have to get

Nakamura on the show and have you both in the room at the same time, some way or another.

620

00:45:59,600 --> 00:46:00,701

We will make it happen.

621

00:46:00,701 --> 00:46:02,443

I'm putting it out to you guys.

622

00:46:02,443 --> 00:46:04,124

WWE, make it happen.

623

00:46:04,124 --> 00:46:05,926

Fans, make it happen.

624

00:46:05,926 --> 00:46:06,990

Both you guys in the same room.

625

00:46:06,990 --> 00:46:07,913

It's gonna be great.

626

00:46:07,913 --> 00:46:09,153

That would be super cool.

627

00:46:09,153 --> 00:46:10,202

Super cool.

628

00:46:10,373 --> 00:46:20,890

So we're gonna dovetail a little bit into Music City Rumble here, where you are

responsible for booking one men's singles match, one women's singles match, and a tag team

629

00:46:20,890 --> 00:46:26,443

match, and you get to choose to put musicians versus musicians in the squared circle and

choose who wins those.

630

00:46:26,443 --> 00:46:30,666

So let's start off with our singles match, men's versus men's.

631

00:46:30,726 --> 00:46:32,887

Men versus men, one on one.

632

00:46:34,469 --> 00:46:35,019

Yeah.

633

00:46:35,019 --> 00:46:36,420

so, hmm.

634

00:46:37,962 --> 00:46:39,063

Let's see.

635

00:46:39,063 --> 00:46:40,404

Well...

636

00:46:40,865 --> 00:46:43,307

Okay, so the funny thing is, are we counting...

637

00:46:43,307 --> 00:46:49,933

So, for instance, like, I know that, like, Harley Flanagan from the Cro-Mags is a BJJ guy.

638

00:46:50,014 --> 00:46:50,714

Right?

639

00:46:50,714 --> 00:46:53,516

So, he already knows how to fight.

640

00:46:53,981 --> 00:47:03,447

this guy like and you know i know it's not exactly pro wrestling right but like the guy

already knows how to fight plus that guy just had to fight squatting on the lower east

641

00:47:03,447 --> 00:47:13,292

side for however many so i would say him definitely that guy um and then who like

642

00:47:15,635 --> 00:47:18,638

I would just like him to see Beat- I would like to see...

643

00:47:20,711 --> 00:47:23,310

Him beat the shit out of Morgan Wallen.

644

00:47:24,389 --> 00:47:28,283

Morgan Wallen's been someone who's been brought up on the show a couple times.

645

00:47:28,339 --> 00:47:30,812

So I just want to see him take a beating.

646

00:47:31,995 --> 00:47:36,703

Actually, just I don't even know about his skill or what he knows or what he doesn't know.

647

00:47:36,703 --> 00:47:40,308

But I just kind of want to see a chair kind of on the back of his head.

648

00:47:40,391 --> 00:47:42,252

So Morgan Wallen goes down in that one.

649

00:47:42,252 --> 00:47:46,746

I think it's a good time in uh Music City Rumble where Morgan Wallen has gone down.

650

00:47:46,746 --> 00:47:51,790

Sorry, I'm into that.

651

00:47:51,790 --> 00:47:52,511

Sorry, Morgan.

652

00:47:52,511 --> 00:47:54,681

Not really sorry, but you know.

653

00:47:54,681 --> 00:47:55,513

not sorry at all.

654

00:47:55,513 --> 00:47:57,064

So that's that's the men's.

655

00:47:59,129 --> 00:48:00,170

Women's one on one.

656

00:48:00,170 --> 00:48:05,458

oh Nina Strauss, because she fucking kicks ass.

657

00:48:05,860 --> 00:48:06,523

Right.

658

00:48:06,523 --> 00:48:09,439

And that's a very good tie to rising sun.

659

00:48:09,864 --> 00:48:10,164

Right?

660

00:48:10,164 --> 00:48:10,445

Yeah.

661

00:48:10,445 --> 00:48:12,457

So great tides, Anita Strauss.

662

00:48:12,457 --> 00:48:19,153

And then, um, are we, are we talking about like people in their prime or like as they are

now?

663

00:48:19,153 --> 00:48:20,877

You can make that distinction.

664

00:48:20,877 --> 00:48:24,917

I would like to see Nita Strauss fight.

665

00:48:24,917 --> 00:48:26,527

Stevie Nicks.

666

00:48:26,839 --> 00:48:27,280

my god.

667

00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:29,529

um

668

00:48:31,283 --> 00:48:33,753

One is just a shredder and the other, oh boy.

669

00:48:33,753 --> 00:48:34,464

Oh boy.

670

00:48:34,464 --> 00:48:35,778

Who goes over in that one?

671

00:48:35,778 --> 00:48:37,118

You gotta be careful on that one.

672

00:48:37,118 --> 00:48:37,468

Right?

673

00:48:37,468 --> 00:48:42,420

No, because Stevie Nicks, I don't think she can fight, but she's fucking crazy.

674

00:48:42,680 --> 00:48:47,472

like, everybody knows that she's like, woo over here.

675

00:48:47,472 --> 00:48:47,752

Right?

676

00:48:47,752 --> 00:48:51,037

So like, I don't know.

677

00:48:51,037 --> 00:49:00,088

I feel like, okay, as somebody who does dabble in, does dabble in martial arts, like I'm a

big Muay Thai aficionado.

678

00:49:00,088 --> 00:49:03,605

Actually right after this thing is over, I'm running to class.

679

00:49:03,605 --> 00:49:04,526

Right?

680

00:49:04,526 --> 00:49:11,240

um, I would say, Nita does know a little kickboxing.

681

00:49:11,240 --> 00:49:12,370

I know that.

682

00:49:12,390 --> 00:49:12,951

Right?

683

00:49:12,951 --> 00:49:16,658

But also you kind of have crazy, which

684

00:49:16,658 --> 00:49:18,494

one meme that came out a while ago?

685

00:49:18,494 --> 00:49:20,557

You know karate, I know car-razy.

686

00:49:20,557 --> 00:49:29,817

Yeah, I know crazy, but as somebody who knows a little bit also crazy doesn't really take

you that far because you can't like you have no cardio.

687

00:49:29,837 --> 00:49:33,237

You like three minutes is a long fucking time.

688

00:49:33,637 --> 00:49:35,057

Actually, right.

689

00:49:35,057 --> 00:49:41,817

So, you know, and I guess I'm approaching it from where I know from the boxing perspective

and not from wrestling.

690

00:49:41,817 --> 00:49:48,457

But I imagine that the cardio and the athletics probably are somewhat related and similar.

691

00:49:48,457 --> 00:49:50,457

So I would give it to Nita.

692

00:49:50,569 --> 00:49:52,506

Alright, I'm into that.

693

00:49:52,506 --> 00:49:53,981

And then you get the tag team match.

694

00:49:53,981 --> 00:49:56,142

So you're putting a band versus a band.

695

00:49:56,142 --> 00:50:02,085

Okay, well obviously from my own personal experience, I know the Dillinger guys are

fucking insane.

696

00:50:02,085 --> 00:50:11,009

Like, Ben Weinman is he's like the nicest guy off stage and he's like actually a very

gentle guy also.

697

00:50:11,110 --> 00:50:14,591

But you know, he's also a fucking lunatic.

698

00:50:14,692 --> 00:50:21,815

And you know, so uh let's do the Dillinger escape plan versus that.

699

00:50:21,815 --> 00:50:25,017

Do I want it to be close or do I want it to be just a total?

700

00:50:25,709 --> 00:50:33,529

destroying like, like, or do I put them against like, you know, the Doobie Brothers or

something?

701

00:50:34,289 --> 00:50:35,409

I don't know.

702

00:50:35,549 --> 00:50:36,569

What?

703

00:50:36,703 --> 00:50:40,289

that you put them up against, Greg is gonna have the upper hand.

704

00:50:40,289 --> 00:50:42,180

Yeah, Greg is a fucking lunatic too, right?

705

00:50:42,180 --> 00:50:43,150

He's just insane.

706

00:50:43,150 --> 00:50:44,121

He's like, right?

707

00:50:44,121 --> 00:50:52,214

So, I guess it depends on whether you want to see an actual match or you want to see just

total like destruction.

708

00:50:52,214 --> 00:50:56,146

Um, like not even an actual match.

709

00:50:56,146 --> 00:50:56,425

Okay.

710

00:50:56,425 --> 00:50:59,497

So who also can like match the crazy?

711

00:50:59,497 --> 00:51:09,061

Oh, I know it would be all of Dillinger versus just Gigi Allen.

712

00:51:11,442 --> 00:51:14,228

Okay, so there, who goes over?

713

00:51:15,324 --> 00:51:16,621

I think.

714

00:51:16,621 --> 00:51:20,000

I think the Dillinger guys take it though because of sheer numbers.

715

00:51:20,524 --> 00:51:22,891

think, but I think, I think, or how about this?

716

00:51:22,891 --> 00:51:24,373

I think everybody dies.

717

00:51:25,432 --> 00:51:35,448

Or what we could do is it gets down literally to just GG and Greg and Greg pulls it out

because you got to be able to say that He would literally get like at least four of the

718

00:51:35,448 --> 00:51:37,886

people but he wouldn't be able to pass the test

719

00:51:37,886 --> 00:51:38,156

right?

720

00:51:38,156 --> 00:51:40,369

They both literally have thrown shit.

721

00:51:40,390 --> 00:51:41,231

So.

722

00:51:43,433 --> 00:51:44,120

I bet.

723

00:51:44,120 --> 00:51:45,340

think like that.

724

00:51:45,340 --> 00:51:45,760

like that.

725

00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:46,640

I'm going to go with that.

726

00:51:46,640 --> 00:51:57,880

I think Dillinger wins, but everybody dies except, but the whole band weakens Gigi Allen

so much that Greg could take them out.

727

00:51:58,700 --> 00:52:00,411

That's where we end with that.

728

00:52:00,412 --> 00:52:01,153

That's awesome.

729

00:52:01,153 --> 00:52:03,577

And then last question I ask everybody when they come on.

730

00:52:03,577 --> 00:52:09,137

If you had to choose three songs to put on a playlist that represent you, what three songs

would they be?

731

00:52:09,137 --> 00:52:13,730

Okay, so I've been low-key thinking about this the entire time.

732

00:52:13,730 --> 00:52:15,252

The first song...

733

00:52:17,311 --> 00:52:22,004

First song is You Can't Bring Me Down by Suicidal Tendencies.

734

00:52:23,967 --> 00:52:27,490

Because that's basically how I live my life.

735

00:52:27,490 --> 00:52:28,870

basically...

736

00:52:29,792 --> 00:52:35,195

Like, I think the world is a fucking crazy shitty place.

737

00:52:35,656 --> 00:52:38,139

Potentially a lot, right?

738

00:52:38,139 --> 00:52:46,085

And I think that you have to have that will in you that like almost it's almost I've

always I've struggled with defining this, but it's like

739

00:52:46,653 --> 00:52:56,736

like it's like almost like a spite where it's like you can't know you can't fucking all of

you assholes are trying to take me down and y'all can go fuck yourselves because i'm still

740

00:52:56,736 --> 00:53:09,380

here like i'm here like you know what mean this kind of like you can't touch me i know

you're trying but come come come to me you know what mean like i think that that's

741

00:53:09,380 --> 00:53:14,501

definitely in a weirdly positive way it's like positive spite

742

00:53:15,559 --> 00:53:18,272

if that makes any weird sense.

743

00:53:18,272 --> 00:53:19,653

that's one.

744

00:53:19,929 --> 00:53:21,956

I would say you can't bring me down suicidal.

745

00:53:21,956 --> 00:53:23,597

um

746

00:53:25,181 --> 00:53:26,224

I think...

747

00:53:26,224 --> 00:53:27,693

Maybe, uh

748

00:53:27,693 --> 00:53:30,985

Well, it's a classical piece, so there's no words.

749

00:53:31,085 --> 00:53:42,793

But I think I really, what resonates with me very, much to my core is the last movement of

the Bach Partita in D minor, which is the Chaconne.

750

00:53:42,793 --> 00:53:50,698

um And I think it's Bach at his simultaneously, like most intellectual, but also deep

spiritual.

751

00:53:50,698 --> 00:53:54,981

He wrote it right after his wife, his first wife died.

752

00:53:55,241 --> 00:53:55,541

And...

753

00:53:55,541 --> 00:53:56,902

um

754

00:53:57,154 --> 00:54:13,585

we know there's a lot of, uh there's a lot of him trying to kind of like know God through

this sort of like construction of like mathematical like it's super like, it's super

755

00:54:13,585 --> 00:54:14,566

mathy.

756

00:54:14,572 --> 00:54:14,998

Sure.

757

00:54:14,998 --> 00:54:19,062

also not just it's not just an intellectual exercise in that way.

758

00:54:19,062 --> 00:54:23,466

So I think there's that there's that kind of a amalgam there.

759

00:54:23,606 --> 00:54:26,569

it resonates with me very, very, very deeply.

760

00:54:26,569 --> 00:54:35,637

So I would say the last movement of the unaccompanied uh D minor partita for violin, the

Chaconne.

761

00:54:36,518 --> 00:54:38,730

I guess the third one, what do I love?

762

00:54:38,730 --> 00:54:39,341

What do I love?

763

00:54:39,341 --> 00:54:39,981

What do I love?

764

00:54:39,981 --> 00:54:41,062

um

765

00:54:42,518 --> 00:54:43,539

What resonates with me?

766

00:54:43,539 --> 00:54:48,307

Third one that defines, that has a big way, that goes a long way to defining me.

767

00:54:48,307 --> 00:54:49,248

That's really hard.

768

00:54:49,248 --> 00:54:50,601

ah

769

00:54:50,601 --> 00:54:54,628

The Ravel Piano Trio, Passacaille

770

00:54:55,498 --> 00:54:56,703

Good choice.

771

00:54:56,819 --> 00:55:03,038

That's another, that's the other one that like, find myself really like always coming back

to always, always, always.

772

00:55:03,038 --> 00:55:03,979

So,

773

00:55:04,135 --> 00:55:05,215

Ravel's so good too.

774

00:55:05,215 --> 00:55:13,119

Ravel's one of my favorite composers and I never miss an opportunity to talk about Je

D'Eau or ah just any of his work.

775

00:55:13,119 --> 00:55:23,204

For me, it's funny too, because my wife has played a lot of Ravel's pieces before and

she's always just like, he was an amazing composer, but not an amazing pianist.

776

00:55:23,204 --> 00:55:24,405

And I'm like, really?

777

00:55:24,405 --> 00:55:34,249

And then I hear the way he interprets his own music and I'm like, man, there's some things

that people play and it's so emotive and so just slow and moving.

778

00:55:34,249 --> 00:55:43,217

and technical but beautiful and then you hear him play it and he's just a shred guy and

I'm just like alright he speeds through so many of those things

779

00:55:43,217 --> 00:55:43,978

Right, right, right.

780

00:55:43,978 --> 00:56:00,410

It just goes to show the difference between the composer and the performer and that sort

of how it gets it can get how that perception is so different and allows for the performer

781

00:56:00,410 --> 00:56:09,686

to like really bring out things that maybe the composer didn't even really know or mean to

do, but is still valid.

782

00:56:09,875 --> 00:56:10,716

Absolutely.

783

00:56:10,716 --> 00:56:13,489

Well Earl, thank you so much for making time to join us today.

784

00:56:13,489 --> 00:56:23,953

There's a, I love the fact of us being able to talk music, talk Nakamura, but there's so

much that you bring to music and so much that you've brought to wrestling fans through the

785

00:56:23,953 --> 00:56:25,365

Sonic, through the Vision and all that.

786

00:56:25,365 --> 00:56:28,561

And so I just can't thank you enough for sharing some time with us today.

787

00:56:28,561 --> 00:56:30,325

John, listen, thank you for having me.

788

00:56:30,325 --> 00:56:31,527

It's been a real pleasure.

789

00:56:31,527 --> 00:56:33,659

I've had a lot of fun shooting the shit with you.