The Yagas on The Making of Midnight Minuet, Ozzy, The Rock Academy, Vera Farminga Tracking Pendulum

If you guys haven't heard the Yagas yet, stop what you're doing.

2

00:00:14,118 --> 00:00:15,489

Don't even listen to this episode.

3

00:00:15,489 --> 00:00:17,110

Go listen to the record.

4

00:00:17,110 --> 00:00:18,211

It's amazing.

5

00:00:18,211 --> 00:00:21,133

We've got some amazing music we're to talk about all today.

6

00:00:21,133 --> 00:00:23,994

Today I've got Jason and Ren from the Yagas.

7

00:00:23,994 --> 00:00:25,775

Thank you guys for joining us today.

8

00:00:25,784 --> 00:00:26,707

Thanks for having us.

9

00:00:26,707 --> 00:00:27,377

us.

10

00:00:27,505 --> 00:00:28,165

Absolutely.

11

00:00:28,165 --> 00:00:34,537

And off air, I was gushing a little bit about the new record because I had heard the

crying room and I was like, this is great.

12

00:00:34,537 --> 00:00:38,298

And then as soon as the crying room came out, everyone's like, there's an orchestral metal

record.

13

00:00:38,298 --> 00:00:41,119

Then the next press release came out and they were like, there's an alt rock record.

14

00:00:41,119 --> 00:00:44,080

Then the next press release came out and they were just like, it's horror.

15

00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:46,921

I'm just like, it's just great evocative music.

16

00:00:46,921 --> 00:00:49,372

Let's just talk about the record itself.

17

00:00:49,372 --> 00:00:50,882

It's just amazing.

18

00:00:50,882 --> 00:00:53,085

So first off, kudos to coming up with.

19

00:00:53,085 --> 00:00:56,557

What I can only say is one of the most visceral records of 2025 so far.

20

00:00:56,557 --> 00:00:57,759

So keep crushing it guys.

21

00:00:57,759 --> 00:01:07,206

So let's talk a little bit about the formation of the Yagas too, because I believe you

guys met at a music school from what I see up in your area.

22

00:01:08,169 --> 00:01:08,969

Your music school.

23

00:01:08,969 --> 00:01:09,710

Tell us about that.

24

00:01:09,710 --> 00:01:10,811

Cause I run a music school too.

25

00:01:10,811 --> 00:01:11,861

That's awesome.

26

00:01:11,909 --> 00:01:14,723

my wife and I run a music school called Rock Academy.

27

00:01:14,723 --> 00:01:18,646

we've been, we opened as Rock Academy seven years ago or so.

28

00:01:18,646 --> 00:01:21,596

It's a school for children mostly, ages eight to 18.

29

00:01:21,596 --> 00:01:25,040

But then we also have an adult program from 18 to whenever.

30

00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:29,285

So I taught all of their kids at one point or another.

31

00:01:29,604 --> 00:01:38,541

And you know, three hour rehearsals, they would come in, drop the kids off and then just

be sitting in the parking lot or in the lobby for three hours and chatting basically.

32

00:01:38,541 --> 00:01:43,244

Conversations which I was not privy to because I was in Wrangling the Cats, I mean

teaching the children.

33

00:01:43,244 --> 00:01:49,020

But, you know, eventually, I think it was the pandemic or just after the pandemic maybe

when the...

34

00:01:49,020 --> 00:01:55,356

somebody signed Ren up for the adult program and then Vera followed and then Mark followed

and eventually Mike joined.

35

00:01:55,356 --> 00:02:03,942

And whenever we do the adult program and somebody picks like a metal song or something

heavy with a lot of double kick, some of the drummers in the adult program can't quite

36

00:02:03,942 --> 00:02:04,683

keep up with that.

37

00:02:04,683 --> 00:02:06,846

So I step in and I'll play those tunes.

38

00:02:06,846 --> 00:02:09,429

And that's how we all got to play together on songs.

39

00:02:09,429 --> 00:02:13,163

And there was a definite chemistry there, definite, you know, just love.

40

00:02:13,505 --> 00:02:16,670

And it started to work immediately, honestly.

41

00:02:17,165 --> 00:02:20,905

From my perspective, I'm sorry if it's very loud.

42

00:02:21,545 --> 00:02:22,476

Is it very loud?

43

00:02:22,476 --> 00:02:23,456

Okay.

44

00:02:24,216 --> 00:02:28,396

So Vera and I, my wife and two kids, we were moving back from Canada.

45

00:02:28,396 --> 00:02:33,456

We were kind of, had been away for six years on a TV show.

46

00:02:33,736 --> 00:02:40,856

And we were looking for a community to just, you know, be part of and a friend of ours

invited us to the Rock Academy.

47

00:02:40,876 --> 00:02:45,508

And like, I just immediately saw in my kid's eyes, I just saw it.

48

00:02:45,508 --> 00:02:49,620

them just light up when they saw kids their age playing the music.

49

00:02:49,620 --> 00:02:56,377

think it was the doors was their first show, you know, and my son immediately turned to me

is like, I want to do this.

50

00:02:56,377 --> 00:03:00,600

You know, little did I know that like two years later, I'd be like, I want to do this too.

51

00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:09,999

Because the funny thing is, is that you have, I think, I don't know, maybe to attract a

kind of a family, but you have

52

00:03:10,299 --> 00:03:20,999

an incredible pool of musicians who are adults sitting in the parking lot of the Rock

Academy, just waiting there for three hours while their kids are inside having a blast and

53

00:03:20,999 --> 00:03:31,659

like, know, chasing each other around with Pringle cans and like, you know, pens at each

other and jamming together, forming friendships and having this just like amazing

54

00:03:31,659 --> 00:03:33,259

environment and clubhouse.

55

00:03:33,259 --> 00:03:36,879

And we're out in the park and not wondering like, why do they get to have all the fun?

56

00:03:36,879 --> 00:03:39,379

Why didn't I have this as a kid?

57

00:03:39,429 --> 00:03:43,340

Somebody as a joke signed me up for the adult program.

58

00:03:43,340 --> 00:03:45,082

Still to this day, I don't know who it was.

59

00:03:45,082 --> 00:03:47,142

Vera thinks it was Scott Ian.

60

00:03:47,303 --> 00:03:50,706

I don't know if that's true because he's a friend of all of ours.

61

00:03:50,706 --> 00:03:54,197

I think it was another kid, but in any event, I just said, all right, I'll do it.

62

00:03:54,197 --> 00:03:57,008

And Vera said, you're doing it, I'm doing it.

63

00:03:57,008 --> 00:04:00,409

And then soon enough, Jason became my teacher.

64

00:04:00,429 --> 00:04:03,031

So one could argue that Jason

65

00:04:03,356 --> 00:04:08,018

is all of our teachers, In the Rock Academy.

66

00:04:08,018 --> 00:04:12,773

And, you know, he cracked us all wide open and I was, you know, a certain kind of a

musician.

67

00:04:12,773 --> 00:04:15,894

He gave me some really complicated things that I wasn't used to playing.

68

00:04:15,894 --> 00:04:18,555

it just like, you know, it's kind of funny.

69

00:04:18,555 --> 00:04:23,716

I think I was 49 at the time, but to be like midlife and like somebody challenging you

like that.

70

00:04:23,716 --> 00:04:24,588

And I don't know.

71

00:04:24,588 --> 00:04:26,408

it just really started to gel.

72

00:04:26,408 --> 00:04:28,113

And I think that like through

73

00:04:28,113 --> 00:04:36,304

you know, natural selection, we kind of gravitated towards one another, just from the song

assignments that Jason's given us all and playing with each other on stage.

74

00:04:36,304 --> 00:04:43,614

So I just want to keep highlighting like just how important Rock Academy is in the history

of this band and the formation.

75

00:04:43,614 --> 00:04:44,944

So, yeah.

76

00:04:44,944 --> 00:04:51,528

love also that you said that you're still not sure who signed you up it could have been

Scott Ian But there is a universe here where could have been Vera and she's still just

77

00:04:51,528 --> 00:04:55,711

like I know man Could have been Scott, but now I'm here.

78

00:04:55,711 --> 00:04:57,672

Maybe she's wanted to do this for a

79

00:04:57,880 --> 00:04:58,516

Yeah, maybe.

80

00:04:58,516 --> 00:05:01,268

Because I tell you, it cracked her wide open.

81

00:05:01,268 --> 00:05:07,894

know, like the discovery for her, you know, like I said, like midlife, like who knew?

82

00:05:07,974 --> 00:05:11,218

She and I had been together for 19 years, you know.

83

00:05:11,218 --> 00:05:11,889

No idea.

84

00:05:11,889 --> 00:05:13,641

She had, I knew she had loud voice.

85

00:05:13,641 --> 00:05:15,391

I didn't know, I didn't know she had.

86

00:05:15,391 --> 00:05:20,273

the control than the passion and just like the love of heavy music, you know?

87

00:05:20,273 --> 00:05:23,630

it's, yeah.

88

00:05:24,273 --> 00:05:24,732

Yeah.

89

00:05:24,732 --> 00:05:29,326

you know, as a music teacher, I didn't know you were a music teacher, but I'm sure you

have the same feeling.

90

00:05:29,326 --> 00:05:40,525

That's one of my favorite parts about teaching is that moment where you get somebody who

is obviously out of their heads, nervous, and then they open their mouth or they go to hit

91

00:05:40,525 --> 00:05:42,016

the note and it happens.

92

00:05:42,016 --> 00:05:45,521

And then you see that the light, you know, enter their eyes.

93

00:05:45,521 --> 00:05:47,474

It's just one of the greatest feelings.

94

00:05:47,474 --> 00:05:49,496

It's one of the reasons why you get into music.

95

00:05:49,496 --> 00:05:55,561

know, it's one of these things where you see whether it's like the first lesson or whether

it's down the road and like a recital or something like that.

96

00:05:55,561 --> 00:06:03,509

You know, we just finished up our five recitals here this last weekend and it's crazy

because there were a couple of kids that you saw a little bit of nervousness before they

97

00:06:03,509 --> 00:06:04,370

jumped in.

98

00:06:04,370 --> 00:06:12,186

And then all of a sudden you see them get on stage and it just changes for a lot of them,

you know, and they don't realize the adulation.

99

00:06:12,186 --> 00:06:14,350

They don't realize like how good

100

00:06:14,350 --> 00:06:16,893

They are, they kind of hear all their own mistakes.

101

00:06:16,893 --> 00:06:18,214

They hear their own fear.

102

00:06:18,214 --> 00:06:19,635

They hear their own consciousness.

103

00:06:19,635 --> 00:06:23,469

And then they just rip it and everyone's just like, my God, you're so good.

104

00:06:23,469 --> 00:06:24,961

Like what happened?

105

00:06:24,961 --> 00:06:28,814

And it's just, makes you so proud to like, and I've said this to all my students.

106

00:06:28,814 --> 00:06:32,508

go, listen, I'm grateful to have had the opportunities that I've had in music.

107

00:06:32,508 --> 00:06:34,159

And I know you guys as well.

108

00:06:34,159 --> 00:06:39,195

but to be able to see you guys just do all of this amazing stuff, like there's not a

better feeling in the world.

109

00:06:39,195 --> 00:06:40,679

Yeah, it's amazing.

110

00:06:40,679 --> 00:06:41,422

It's amazing.

111

00:06:41,422 --> 00:06:45,311

You watch the wings just sort of, you know, rise out of their back.

112

00:06:45,667 --> 00:06:46,824

Absolutely.

113

00:06:46,824 --> 00:06:47,224

yeah.

114

00:06:47,224 --> 00:06:54,236

And you know, just to go back to what you were saying earlier about the record and like,

you know, how to label it,

115

00:06:54,236 --> 00:07:03,934

I think that what you have is this like, our record is like a cauldron of everybody's

influences and everybody's history, just kind of mixed up.

116

00:07:03,934 --> 00:07:16,037

And I think it's okay when a record doesn't quite fit into a box, but on its own, I think

from start to finish, if you, I don't know who listens to full albums anymore, but

117

00:07:16,102 --> 00:07:19,054

If you do, think it makes really good sense altogether.

118

00:07:19,054 --> 00:07:28,498

And I think you have to just kind of, you know, remove those barriers, you know, of trying

to figure out like how it works or why it works and just enjoy it, you know?

119

00:07:28,638 --> 00:07:34,961

But yeah, and think that Jason did a really great job of sequencing the record, I think,

to kind of solidify that.

120

00:07:34,961 --> 00:07:37,042

I didn't really have any idea how to do that.

121

00:07:37,042 --> 00:07:40,015

And he somehow just kind of feels like this.

122

00:07:40,015 --> 00:07:44,501

book-ended journey of grief and love for me.

123

00:07:44,501 --> 00:07:46,744

That's what I get listening back to it.

124

00:07:46,744 --> 00:07:56,176

Yeah, it's, I feel like we went into it intending for it to be a visceral experience,

maybe not necessarily understanding how that would work or how that would come out, but

125

00:07:56,176 --> 00:08:04,106

it's, know, whenever you enter a project, as long as you do it with an open mind and a

love for the people around you, you tend to find your way.

126

00:08:04,106 --> 00:08:05,846

You tend to find the path.

127

00:08:05,846 --> 00:08:07,788

to wherever you're trying to get to collectively.

128

00:08:07,788 --> 00:08:16,927

A lot of the times it was just a matter of being in a room and throwing out ideas and

going, we like the idea but it's not gonna work for this part so we're gonna cut it, but

129

00:08:16,927 --> 00:08:25,194

let's try something new and then you try that new thing and then everybody just looks at

each other and smiles and goes, yes, that's where we're trying to get to.

130

00:08:25,194 --> 00:08:25,732

ah

131

00:08:25,732 --> 00:08:27,234

And that, yeah.

132

00:08:27,317 --> 00:08:35,977

that's something I wanted to ask you guys too, because the record has such an interesting

vibe and kind of knowing about, cool, you guys are all in this school together.

133

00:08:35,977 --> 00:08:38,529

You guys are parents of people who are in this school.

134

00:08:38,529 --> 00:08:45,795

lot of the times when you get grownups together, this isn't the style of music that

everyone jams on, but like you end up hearing all of this evocative music.

135

00:08:45,795 --> 00:08:53,253

Was there upfront kind of a direction of, okay, cool, let's try out some songs that we

like and see what fits or was it kind of like, hey, while...

136

00:08:53,253 --> 00:08:56,836

we have all of us together, what kind of direction do we want to go in?

137

00:08:56,836 --> 00:09:05,562

Because I think a lot of people, you know, they called it like a heavy metal album or a

castor album because they're like, Vera, The Conjuring, great, Dark Imagery, let's go.

138

00:09:05,562 --> 00:09:08,274

It's got synths and it's got orchestra and it's got this.

139

00:09:08,274 --> 00:09:18,142

But like, I think that when you sit down with each other, how does that come to the

surface where you end up having this record that's a little bit darker as opposed to like

140

00:09:18,142 --> 00:09:20,187

a bunch of people kind of saying, you know what?

141

00:09:20,187 --> 00:09:29,748

cool, let's write something a little bit more upbeat or let's write something a little bit

more, for lack of a better term, what grownups of music school parents may traditionally

142

00:09:29,748 --> 00:09:31,169

jam on or write.

143

00:09:31,255 --> 00:09:34,456

We're all pretty dark, it turns out.

144

00:09:34,780 --> 00:09:44,696

senses of humor are all pretty dark and that's just sort of where we live and part of,

think, one of the reasons that we connected so well was because of our sense of humor

145

00:09:44,696 --> 00:09:49,288

being from the place that it's from and I think you hear that.

146

00:09:49,584 --> 00:09:51,284

Yeah, you know, absolutely.

147

00:09:51,284 --> 00:10:01,084

And what's funny is like you might listen to some of the stuff and be like, wow, these are

some morose lyrics or just even the heaviness and the gravity of the music.

148

00:10:01,084 --> 00:10:01,964

Right.

149

00:10:01,964 --> 00:10:03,044

There's absolutely none of that.

150

00:10:03,044 --> 00:10:07,804

We're all actually very joyous and making jokes and laughing all of the time.

151

00:10:07,804 --> 00:10:12,644

Like one interviewer had asked about asked for your like, how hard was it for you to

152

00:10:12,666 --> 00:10:16,319

to sing and to execute the crying room performance on record.

153

00:10:16,319 --> 00:10:22,422

We did that over a coffee at six in the morning on vacation on a bright August day.

154

00:10:22,422 --> 00:10:29,684

Everyone else is asleep in the house and I always travel with my laptop and my mic and

headphones.

155

00:10:29,704 --> 00:10:31,361

And she was like, I got an idea.

156

00:10:31,361 --> 00:10:33,285

And it was literally one pass.

157

00:10:33,285 --> 00:10:36,986

And then we're cooking scrambled eggs an hour later.

158

00:10:37,111 --> 00:10:40,672

Yeah, but also there's no premeditation, I don't think, in any...

159

00:10:40,672 --> 00:10:44,354

We never have actually gotten together and said, let's try to write one of these.

160

00:10:44,354 --> 00:10:49,197

It's just like someone has an idea and it just kind of just gets built on, right?

161

00:10:49,197 --> 00:10:52,521

you were mentioning the crying room earlier and where that sort of came from.

162

00:10:52,521 --> 00:11:01,564

We were on tour, we take the kids on tour every summer and we were in Vermont playing a

church, an abandoned Catholic church and on one side there was a walled off area that said

163

00:11:01,564 --> 00:11:05,558

choir and on the other side was a walled off area that said crying room.

164

00:11:05,558 --> 00:11:08,951

Neither my wife nor me was raised Catholic.

165

00:11:08,951 --> 00:11:11,062

So we had never seen anything like that.

166

00:11:11,203 --> 00:11:13,264

So we were both like, crying room.

167

00:11:13,264 --> 00:11:14,526

That's amazing.

168

00:11:14,526 --> 00:11:18,270

So Acacia texted Vera and was like, you're not gonna believe what I'm looking at right

now.

169

00:11:18,270 --> 00:11:20,352

Because we had never heard of a crying room, frankly.

170

00:11:20,352 --> 00:11:24,457

So we got back on the bus, Acacia wrote some lyrics down and sent them in.

171

00:11:24,457 --> 00:11:25,349

And then.

172

00:11:25,349 --> 00:11:35,497

know, of course, what Ren just said, Vera heard that melody at like six in the morning and

got up and did that, you know, turned it from something that we were just like, you know,

173

00:11:35,497 --> 00:11:38,319

sort of boggled by the idea of a crying room.

174

00:11:38,319 --> 00:11:39,209

We were boggled by it.

175

00:11:39,209 --> 00:11:44,493

But Vera turned it and turned it into the emotional catharsis that the song actually

became.

176

00:11:44,493 --> 00:11:48,664

the thing that I love about the record too is, and I always love it when bands do this.

177

00:11:48,664 --> 00:11:53,286

It's like the lyrics, I cannot hide from your advantage or from your advances.

178

00:11:53,286 --> 00:11:56,817

The hedonistic gross malfunction, the listless labyrinth plight.

179

00:11:56,817 --> 00:11:59,807

We're totally bringing out the dictionary on this, ladies and gentlemen.

180

00:11:59,807 --> 00:12:00,599

I love this.

181

00:12:00,599 --> 00:12:02,059

you have such

182

00:12:02,321 --> 00:12:05,003

an evocative record, it comes down to the lyrics too.

183

00:12:05,003 --> 00:12:09,386

It comes down to this concept of how are we going to go ahead and get this emotion?

184

00:12:09,386 --> 00:12:12,949

Let's go ahead and use as many of these different kinds of topics as possible.

185

00:12:12,949 --> 00:12:15,390

Who's responsible for the lyrics in the band?

186

00:12:15,390 --> 00:12:18,352

Is that Vera also, or is that kind of you guys all together?

187

00:12:18,352 --> 00:12:24,837

Because it sounds like it's a really collaborative process of whoever's coming up with

this part really helps drive that narrative forward.

188

00:12:24,879 --> 00:12:28,356

It's song by song, but go ahead, Jake, go.

189

00:12:28,356 --> 00:12:31,656

I was gonna say that lyric that you just read, that was all Vera.

190

00:12:31,956 --> 00:12:38,145

But I've written some of the lyrics and my wife Acacia has written some of the lyrics to

the album.

191

00:12:38,145 --> 00:12:44,942

Acacia has probably collaborated on over half the record with Vera.

192

00:12:44,942 --> 00:12:49,045

They have a good partnerships, like lyric writing partnership.

193

00:12:49,045 --> 00:12:53,050

Some songs were inspired by Acacia's writing even.

194

00:12:53,050 --> 00:12:56,169

It wasn't like trying to just put words to music always.

195

00:12:56,169 --> 00:13:06,889

You know, we just happen to have like a piece of music that worked and Acacia had sent

over these lyrics about like being in this crying room and it just worked, it just worked.

196

00:13:06,889 --> 00:13:18,169

But you know, it's funny because the song Antedonia, I don't even know where we recorded

that, but when I first met Vera 20 something years ago, she used to carry this like

197

00:13:18,169 --> 00:13:26,269

dictionary, like day-to-day book with her called a flipamatic where every day you get a

new word, you know, and

198

00:13:26,567 --> 00:13:29,457

I always thought like, it's a nerdy, you know?

199

00:13:29,457 --> 00:13:30,819

Like, it was kind of funny.

200

00:13:30,819 --> 00:13:32,810

Like she just like carried it around in her purse, you know?

201

00:13:32,810 --> 00:13:36,302

She has always had a love of words, as I know Jason has.

202

00:13:36,302 --> 00:13:39,225

I wrote not one word of that record.

203

00:13:39,325 --> 00:13:42,016

Not a single one.

204

00:13:42,016 --> 00:13:44,300

Maybe I named a song or two, but that's it.

205

00:13:44,300 --> 00:13:45,482

yeah, you definitely did.

206

00:13:45,482 --> 00:13:51,987

remember getting tracks with the title already listed and no lyrics, no words, no

anything.

207

00:13:52,070 --> 00:13:56,050

Well, sometimes Vera would be like, what's it, I'd write a piece of music and she'd be

like, what's it about?

208

00:13:56,050 --> 00:14:00,750

And I'd be like, I guess it's about me dying.

209

00:14:01,850 --> 00:14:06,290

And so, right.

210

00:14:06,709 --> 00:14:10,389

well, and then the song becomes, yeah, yeah.

211

00:14:10,389 --> 00:14:14,709

So I think I actually said it's the life of a widow, right?

212

00:14:14,709 --> 00:14:16,501

And that's where that came from.

213

00:14:16,501 --> 00:14:17,619

down also, I believe.

214

00:14:17,619 --> 00:14:18,370

Right.

215

00:14:18,562 --> 00:14:19,382

don't remember.

216

00:14:19,382 --> 00:14:20,933

Again, this was a weird one.

217

00:14:20,933 --> 00:14:30,260

was like, you everyone has like their little magic hour, you know, if you're Terrence

Malick, it's shooting between four and six PM, you know, three months out of the year.

218

00:14:30,260 --> 00:14:41,335

ah yeah, for Vera, it's 5.30 to like seven AM where, I don't know, the little, I know you

don't.

219

00:14:41,335 --> 00:14:42,750

That's when you're like going to bed.

220

00:14:42,750 --> 00:14:44,861

That's exactly what I'm heading to bed.

221

00:14:44,911 --> 00:14:48,323

Yeah, but that's when the inspiration seemed to kick in with her.

222

00:14:48,323 --> 00:14:50,273

So, She's Walking Down was one of those.

223

00:14:50,273 --> 00:14:57,407

Again, it was never an intention to like, we're gonna write a song about child abduction,

like our biggest fear, our daughter being abducted.

224

00:14:57,407 --> 00:15:01,569

This was like, had written some like, the coffee wasn't even made yet.

225

00:15:01,569 --> 00:15:08,962

I had turned it on and I had my keyboard on the dining table and I just started playing

something.

226

00:15:08,962 --> 00:15:09,812

She was like, what is that?

227

00:15:09,812 --> 00:15:11,413

And I said, I have no idea.

228

00:15:11,413 --> 00:15:12,852

And then she went to,

229

00:15:12,852 --> 00:15:16,764

changed the laundry and by the time she came up she had the lyrics done.

230

00:15:16,764 --> 00:15:19,486

And we literally just like, it was just like boom.

231

00:15:19,486 --> 00:15:23,869

But then, don't get me wrong, the song needed a lot of work after that.

232

00:15:24,089 --> 00:15:33,018

If you remember Jason and Mark, you know, sitting there like, it's very difficult to get

some of that, that syncopation down between the guitar and the drums.

233

00:15:33,018 --> 00:15:34,549

But yeah.

234

00:15:34,722 --> 00:15:40,346

But that's what it is too, you know, when you write music, sometimes you have these ideas

that come to you super quick.

235

00:15:40,346 --> 00:15:43,949

And you hear this all the time from you guys, from other musicians, from myself.

236

00:15:43,949 --> 00:15:45,296

Hey, how did that song come out?

237

00:15:45,296 --> 00:15:45,710

I don't know.

238

00:15:45,710 --> 00:15:47,612

I was eating a sandwich and then it was done in 10 minutes.

239

00:15:47,612 --> 00:15:50,474

You hear other songs that it's like, hey, we haven't even finished it.

240

00:15:50,474 --> 00:15:54,627

You know, and it's been months now and you're just literally coming up with these

different ideas.

241

00:15:54,627 --> 00:15:57,889

But everything comes from somewhere and you don't know what's going to spark that.

242

00:15:57,889 --> 00:16:02,166

And even like you said, you're like, I'm not thinking about our kid getting abducted, but

at the same time,

243

00:16:02,166 --> 00:16:09,234

You know, I'm sure that every parent has something in them that fear and that conversation

of like, know, no one wants to think about that.

244

00:16:09,234 --> 00:16:15,669

But when it comes to writing a record and you're just like, you know what, what does it

sound like and feel like to explore that that may be horrible?

245

00:16:15,669 --> 00:16:18,172

Well, you know what, let's put that into music.

246

00:16:18,172 --> 00:16:20,634

Let's put that into lyrics and let's run with it.

247

00:16:20,634 --> 00:16:23,066

You know, like that's not bad at all.

248

00:16:23,107 --> 00:16:23,968

rarely hear?

249

00:16:23,968 --> 00:16:27,008

I went to the studio at 10 a.m.

250

00:16:27,008 --> 00:16:29,808

I sat down to write this kind of song and I wrote a song.

251

00:16:29,808 --> 00:16:31,448

You never hear that.

252

00:16:31,628 --> 00:16:32,908

You know?

253

00:16:32,928 --> 00:16:33,380

Go ahead.

254

00:16:33,380 --> 00:16:38,193

case, I've only ever heard of that in one case, and that was Bowie.

255

00:16:38,193 --> 00:16:47,351

Yeah, because I know Bowie's bass player, and she said that was every day, you know, tea,

you go to the studio at a certain time, they would be done by a reasonable hour, and

256

00:16:47,351 --> 00:16:49,082

that's just how they worked.

257

00:16:50,164 --> 00:16:52,443

But that's the only time I've ever heard of that.

258

00:16:52,443 --> 00:16:57,651

They were probably just like, you know what, like you go to the studio for 30 days, we'll

put out 10 songs and we have 20 in the chamber.

259

00:16:57,651 --> 00:17:00,274

But I could see that kind of being a thing too.

260

00:17:00,956 --> 00:17:01,441

But.

261

00:17:01,441 --> 00:17:01,859

not

262

00:17:01,859 --> 00:17:12,536

but I think that everyone works, and I know this, and I'm sure you do from teaching as

well, every single person works in their own way, and there's no right or wrong way to do

263

00:17:12,536 --> 00:17:12,887

it.

264

00:17:12,887 --> 00:17:18,120

And that's the difference, I was talking to one of my students before about the difference

between your work and your job, right?

265

00:17:18,120 --> 00:17:24,243

Your job is where you go somewhere, you clock the hours, and then you leave, whereas your

work, you don't,

266

00:17:24,243 --> 00:17:25,163

ever count the hours.

267

00:17:25,163 --> 00:17:27,437

Your work is done when the work is done.

268

00:17:27,437 --> 00:17:30,221

The research scientist's work is done when the cure is found.

269

00:17:30,221 --> 00:17:33,384

The artist's work is done when the masterpiece is finished.

270

00:17:33,384 --> 00:17:40,070

Counting the hours or counting the minutes or anything like that doesn't really matter if

you're doing what you love.

271

00:17:40,427 --> 00:17:41,447

I agree with that, yeah.

272

00:17:41,447 --> 00:17:45,489

And I've even talked to some of my students, because I teach songwriting and composition

too with some of them.

273

00:17:45,489 --> 00:17:51,602

go, you know, you also have to, because sometimes you'll have students who come in and

like a week will go by, like, hey, did you write this?

274

00:17:51,602 --> 00:17:52,102

No.

275

00:17:52,102 --> 00:17:56,224

And I tell them, listen, there's work music and there's art music.

276

00:17:56,224 --> 00:18:00,446

Your art music, you can always take this long amount of time to do whatever you need to.

277

00:18:00,446 --> 00:18:01,027

Right.

278

00:18:01,027 --> 00:18:09,270

The work music, sometimes if you're getting hired to do a session, or in my case, if we're

going over a certain scale, a certain mode or a certain chord saying, hey,

279

00:18:09,270 --> 00:18:12,652

Leverage this, just write a piece with it, understand it, do it.

280

00:18:12,652 --> 00:18:19,496

Because if you get it out there, you may not like everything you write, but you've gotten

it out there and now you can choose what else to do with it.

281

00:18:19,496 --> 00:18:26,710

So I even sometimes say when it comes to conflict, there's those two different sides of

being able to say, here's something you're being asked to do that you just got to kind of

282

00:18:26,710 --> 00:18:28,081

drill it out and go.

283

00:18:28,081 --> 00:18:34,805

And then here is like the music that's really going to evoke everything that you have,

those ones that you put all of your lifeline into.

284

00:18:34,805 --> 00:18:37,836

And both of them kind of work in tandem sometimes.

285

00:18:37,853 --> 00:18:42,745

Sure, I've got friends that they insist on writing a song a day.

286

00:18:43,325 --> 00:18:46,247

Doesn't matter if it's good or bad, song a day.

287

00:18:46,247 --> 00:18:54,200

And when they've got enough of them, let's say a month has gone by, they'll go back over

the songs that they did every one a day and maybe they take a piece of one of them and a

288

00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:58,081

piece from another and they put those together and then they get something really great

out of it.

289

00:18:58,081 --> 00:19:02,243

So out of 20 songs, they get one or two really good ones.

290

00:19:02,904 --> 00:19:06,315

So like I said, everyone works differently and it then...

291

00:19:06,446 --> 00:19:12,412

Once you find your process, that's one of the happiest days there is, I feel.

292

00:19:12,980 --> 00:19:13,984

I love that.

293

00:19:13,984 --> 00:19:15,130

I'll ask you, okay.

294

00:19:15,130 --> 00:19:24,041

gets really difficult because then all of sudden you have all these other roadblocks and

hurdles in your way and you can't do it the way you need to do it because life, life.

295

00:19:25,196 --> 00:19:26,097

Yeah.

296

00:19:26,514 --> 00:19:27,200

Absolutely.

297

00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:31,060

For each of you, what is your favorite song off of the record and why?

298

00:19:31,060 --> 00:19:31,899

Red?

299

00:19:32,163 --> 00:19:46,903

Mine is pendulum and I don't I guess well originally I didn't understand it and Vera I

recorded it in our living room the vocals This was a unique song.

300

00:19:46,903 --> 00:19:48,163

She didn't want to retract it.

301

00:19:48,163 --> 00:19:58,843

So we it was a demo That we did in the living room She's sitting on like my squeaky chair

that I found in a dumpster outside of a guitar store Like it was like it was bad audio.

302

00:19:58,843 --> 00:20:01,543

The kids were screaming for breakfast in the background

303

00:20:01,603 --> 00:20:04,526

And she said, let me try this, you know, screaming thing.

304

00:20:04,526 --> 00:20:08,086

And I just didn't quite understand it.

305

00:20:08,086 --> 00:20:12,470

And then something, I don't know, it just kind of got, got into my pores.

306

00:20:12,470 --> 00:20:15,221

And then I worked really hard on doing my keyboards.

307

00:20:15,221 --> 00:20:18,813

We went into the studio, did the guitars, bass, and the drums.

308

00:20:18,813 --> 00:20:20,723

And then I had time to sit with it and do my keyboards.

309

00:20:20,723 --> 00:20:23,335

And I know, I guess for me, I'm most proud of it.

310

00:20:23,335 --> 00:20:27,377

Of like, I'm not sure it's the best produced song on the album.

311

00:20:27,377 --> 00:20:33,248

but I know the layers that are in there and I don't know, it's the one that grabs me the

most emotionally.

312

00:20:33,248 --> 00:20:36,162

Okay, for me, I think it's midnight minuet.

313

00:20:36,162 --> 00:20:37,452

Midnight minuet for me.

314

00:20:37,452 --> 00:20:46,770

Okay, so going back a little, my grandmother was in the hospital dying basically, and we

came to visit her and we said, know, how are you doing?

315

00:20:46,770 --> 00:20:47,921

How are the nurses treating you?

316

00:20:47,921 --> 00:20:53,314

She said, the nurses there are fine, but I really like the one that lives under my bedside

table.

317

00:20:53,770 --> 00:20:55,872

Right, so cold water down the spine immediately.

318

00:20:55,872 --> 00:20:57,615

We were like, grandma, is she there now?

319

00:20:57,615 --> 00:20:58,436

Yes, she is.

320

00:20:58,436 --> 00:21:00,298

And I said, I said, but we don't see her.

321

00:21:00,298 --> 00:21:05,102

She said, yes, she's between the people that you can see, the in between spaces.

322

00:21:05,102 --> 00:21:08,146

And that idea has fascinated me ever since.

323

00:21:08,146 --> 00:21:13,871

know, science tells us that between zero seconds and one, there are an infinite number of

moments.

324

00:21:14,092 --> 00:21:17,845

And since Einstein proved that time and space are.

325

00:21:18,006 --> 00:21:23,319

woven together into a fabric, it follows that there are also spaces between spaces.

326

00:21:23,319 --> 00:21:27,462

And for me, Midnight Minuet in particular accesses that.

327

00:21:27,462 --> 00:21:38,528

It feels like it's one of those in-between spaces, between life and death perhaps, or even

dimensions, I don't even know, but the feel of it is very much, and it's actually about

328

00:21:38,528 --> 00:21:40,749

dancing with the dead under the moon.

329

00:21:40,749 --> 00:21:42,169

That's what the actual,

330

00:21:42,277 --> 00:21:44,791

you know, idea behind the song was...

331

00:21:45,159 --> 00:21:45,857

Yeah.

332

00:21:45,857 --> 00:21:48,249

Wow, that's crazy.

333

00:21:48,249 --> 00:21:53,836

It's funny, I tell my students I wrote a song one time for a film called The Moments in

Between Breathing.

334

00:21:53,836 --> 00:22:00,262

we often think of like time as this, know, as if something has happened and then something

is going to happen, right?

335

00:22:00,262 --> 00:22:06,931

But there are all these moments before you say that thing that you want to say before you,

know, just those things before the actions happen.

336

00:22:06,931 --> 00:22:13,419

And it's very much like what happens in those spaces, what happens in what you can't see,

what you don't know.

337

00:22:13,419 --> 00:22:15,000

And yeah.

338

00:22:15,541 --> 00:22:16,417

You don't normally see.

339

00:22:16,417 --> 00:22:18,078

artist to pick that out.

340

00:22:18,078 --> 00:22:28,124

Because also one of my favorite things, if you go to the Rembrandt Museum in Amsterdam, at

the very end of the tour are series of these obviously hastily drawn self-portraits that

341

00:22:28,124 --> 00:22:32,287

Rembrandt did, and they're all those in-between moments between composure.

342

00:22:32,287 --> 00:22:36,023

Like it's either him beginning to smile or him just finishing smiling.

343

00:22:36,023 --> 00:22:45,210

or you know like he's doing this kind of thing and and they're drawings they're hand drawn

so obviously he took time to do it but he was focused on those in between moments and that

344

00:22:45,210 --> 00:22:52,395

you know that just i already loved Rembrandt but you know i will forever love him just

just for that you know

345

00:22:52,638 --> 00:22:53,419

I love that.

346

00:22:53,419 --> 00:23:03,116

And from a, from a question that was incredibly evocative to something that's and the

spirit of our ropes and riffs podcast for each of you, if you had to put together a

347

00:23:03,116 --> 00:23:09,019

wrestling match of musicians only for each of you, who would that be and what would it be?

348

00:23:09,227 --> 00:23:10,947

Like, well known?

349

00:23:10,947 --> 00:23:12,176

Is anyone in history?

350

00:23:12,176 --> 00:23:13,541

Or like, people we know?

351

00:23:13,541 --> 00:23:16,915

It could be anyone in history and it could be any kind of match type you want.

352

00:23:16,915 --> 00:23:20,249

It could be Bach and Beethoven in a hardcore match, but I don't know who'd want to see

that.

353

00:23:20,249 --> 00:23:21,321

I'd want to see that.

354

00:23:21,321 --> 00:23:22,222

I just answered it.

355

00:23:22,222 --> 00:23:23,493

How about you guys?

356

00:23:25,146 --> 00:23:29,470

I would want to see Bonham and Ginger Baker in a cage match.

357

00:23:30,212 --> 00:23:30,773

Okay?

358

00:23:30,773 --> 00:23:32,876

A rage in the cage style match.

359

00:23:32,876 --> 00:23:35,240

Just because they were both such bruisers.

360

00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:39,074

And Baker was convinced that he was nothing like Bonham.

361

00:23:39,074 --> 00:23:42,908

That he was more of a cultured musician playing melodies and things like that.

362

00:23:42,908 --> 00:23:45,210

And Bonham was like, who fucking cares?

363

00:23:45,210 --> 00:23:45,891

You know?

364

00:23:45,891 --> 00:23:48,495

Just hit the fucking things loudly, right?

365

00:23:48,495 --> 00:23:54,142

So, you know, it would be like Brains versus Braun, I think, and I think it would be an

amazing match.

366

00:23:54,885 --> 00:23:55,870

I love that.

367

00:23:56,054 --> 00:23:59,526

I'm gonna go with Prince and Michael Jackson.

368

00:23:59,875 --> 00:24:00,848

my God.

369

00:24:01,521 --> 00:24:03,085

I don't know who I would want to win.

370

00:24:03,085 --> 00:24:05,920

I love them both eternally.

371

00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:09,577

They're amazing.

372

00:24:09,577 --> 00:24:12,942

I'm trying to think of the hardest one for me to watch.

373

00:24:13,957 --> 00:24:16,303

And then the last question I got for you guys here.

374

00:24:16,303 --> 00:24:23,349

For each of you, if you had to make a Spotify playlist with three songs that represent who

you are, what would those songs be?

375

00:24:23,856 --> 00:24:26,419

who we are as a band or who we are as people?

376

00:24:27,803 --> 00:24:28,783

Wow.

377

00:24:29,042 --> 00:24:30,554

that's always the hardest question.

378

00:24:30,554 --> 00:24:32,538

We talk about everything else on the show.

379

00:24:32,538 --> 00:24:35,421

As soon as I get to that question, people are like, damn man.

380

00:24:35,623 --> 00:24:37,737

Well, because three songs is tough.

381

00:24:37,737 --> 00:24:42,243

mean, for me, number one would be Firebird Suite by Stravinsky.

382

00:24:42,243 --> 00:24:43,344

But the other two...

383

00:24:43,344 --> 00:24:46,453

uh

384

00:24:46,453 --> 00:24:56,564

next to impossible for me I'm sure it would be a Sam Cooke song and Maybe maybe an anthrax

song You know madhouse or something

385

00:24:56,564 --> 00:25:02,095

I'm not sure how interesting my answer is going to be other than I would say...

386

00:25:02,095 --> 00:25:05,136

Twa Jimnoped by Eric Satie.

387

00:25:05,277 --> 00:25:10,241

To me, I mean, that is, I think, historically the first conventional pop song.

388

00:25:10,241 --> 00:25:14,305

I think which kind of changed the game for everybody, you know, just in terms of its

arrangement.

389

00:25:14,305 --> 00:25:20,189

And also it's just, I don't know, something about its arrangement.

390

00:25:20,189 --> 00:25:25,092

You know, when I sit at the piano and play it, it's just like, you know, one of my faves.

391

00:25:25,092 --> 00:25:27,926

And then I'm going to jump to Mask by Bauhaus.

392

00:25:27,926 --> 00:25:35,537

And then, man, I would say an instrumental Gary Newman song called A Nearly Married Human.

393

00:25:35,537 --> 00:25:36,501

Yes.

394

00:25:37,048 --> 00:25:38,087

great song.

395

00:25:38,087 --> 00:25:39,189

That's all I got.

396

00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:40,885

That's all you need.

397

00:25:40,885 --> 00:25:41,879

He only needed three.

398

00:25:41,879 --> 00:25:43,629

And every time I ask that question...

399

00:25:43,629 --> 00:25:44,980

Ozzy's in there too though.

400

00:25:44,980 --> 00:25:54,435

It's something from Diary of a Madman, know, like when I sitting in seventh grade and like

listening to that and that's when I, yeah.

401

00:25:54,435 --> 00:25:57,140

then Ozzy's just an archangel.

402

00:25:57,522 --> 00:25:58,824

Always included.

403

00:25:58,899 --> 00:26:00,049

think Mr.

404

00:26:00,049 --> 00:26:08,442

Crowley listening to that was not to say it's on satanic because it wasn't, but it's more

of a, I became possessed by the music.

405

00:26:08,882 --> 00:26:21,347

I remember listening to that song in like seventh grade and looking in the mirror and

being like, Whoa, it's just, it's so, it just hit me.

406

00:26:21,347 --> 00:26:24,988

It's just like one of the first things that rattled my soul.

407

00:26:24,988 --> 00:26:26,681

So can I have four?

408

00:26:26,681 --> 00:26:27,823

You can have four.

409

00:26:27,823 --> 00:26:29,104

Absolutely.

410

00:26:29,299 --> 00:26:30,119

I love that.

411

00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:30,997

I love that.

412

00:26:30,997 --> 00:26:33,780

400 because I think I can get there

413

00:26:33,780 --> 00:26:34,228

Yeah.

414

00:26:34,228 --> 00:26:44,256

throw an Aussie on there too and I talked to my buddy Ben recently who's also a massive

Aussie fan and I go controversial statement my favorite Aussie song ever is bark at the

415

00:26:44,256 --> 00:26:49,159

moon and my favorite guitarist of Ozzy ever was Jakey Lee I'm just like I love Randy

Rhoads.

416

00:26:49,159 --> 00:26:50,370

He is phenomenal.

417

00:26:50,370 --> 00:26:51,440

I love Gus G.

418

00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:55,253

I love Zach Wild I love all the guys he's gotten they're all phenomenal

419

00:26:55,253 --> 00:26:58,448

But I don't think in Ozzy's era you get a song.

420

00:26:58,448 --> 00:26:58,868

Well, Mr.

421

00:26:58,868 --> 00:26:59,910

Crowley is great too.

422

00:26:59,910 --> 00:27:04,036

But I'm just like, remember here a bark for the bark at the moon for the first time right

after crazy train.

423

00:27:04,036 --> 00:27:05,979

And I was like, what the hell is this?

424

00:27:05,979 --> 00:27:07,551

That would have to be one of mine.

425

00:27:07,551 --> 00:27:09,734

So, really?

426

00:27:09,734 --> 00:27:12,017

That's awesome.

427

00:27:12,017 --> 00:27:13,808

yeah, I would agree with that.

428

00:27:13,808 --> 00:27:17,833

love, well, I love all the eras for the era themself.

429

00:27:17,833 --> 00:27:21,155

I saw that tour, it was astonishing, it was amazing.

430

00:27:21,155 --> 00:27:30,461

And I love, like I said, I love the Zach Wild era, I love pinch harmonics, you I'd never

heard anything like that before and it was everywhere on every song, coolest thing ever.

431

00:27:30,461 --> 00:27:32,342

And of course, Randy is just.

432

00:27:32,965 --> 00:27:33,942

otherworldly.

433

00:27:33,942 --> 00:27:35,222

melting.

434

00:27:36,856 --> 00:27:42,736

Just those descending scales in the middle of a song, you I'd never heard that before.

435

00:27:43,357 --> 00:27:44,079

you

436

00:27:44,239 --> 00:27:44,919

I love that.

437

00:27:44,919 --> 00:27:47,211

Well guys, thank you so much for making time to come on the show.

438

00:27:47,211 --> 00:27:49,032

everyone check out Midnight Minuet.

439

00:27:49,032 --> 00:27:50,394

Everyone check out the Yagas.

440

00:27:50,394 --> 00:27:52,965

If you haven't heard it yet, this is your call to hear it.

441

00:27:52,965 --> 00:27:58,085

I told you guys at the beginning, if you haven't heard it yet, stop this, go listen to it,

and then come back.

442

00:27:58,085 --> 00:28:01,289

But if you haven't listened to it yet, go listen to it now.

443

00:28:01,289 --> 00:28:01,761

Thank you.

444

00:28:01,761 --> 00:28:07,937

a show coming up August 1, Space Ballroom in New Haven, Connecticut.

445

00:28:08,453 --> 00:28:09,127

that's awesome.

446

00:28:09,127 --> 00:28:10,474

Thank you guys for coming on the show.

447

00:28:10,474 --> 00:28:11,318

John, so much.